SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi there, I'm Molly. And I'm Jamie. We're the owners of Hired Ham Software. And this is season six of our From the Pasture podcast. For more than 15 years, we've been helping breeders promote their pedigree livestock with our easy-to-use, animal management-driven website software.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Each week, we bring you stories from the pasture, breeding philosophies, ranch traditions, cattle knowledge, and conversation with folks using Hired Hand to power their livestock marketing.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

So settle in for today's episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand. Welcome to this episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand. Today we're heading to Southwest Michigan, halfway between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids, to visit Hubble Longhorns, a program built on deep agricultural roots, long-term vision, and decades of commitment to the Texas Longhorn breed. I'm your host, Molly Clubb, and I'm excited to welcome today's guest, Mark Hubble, a breeder whose family farming legacy dates all the way back to 1895, and whose name is now firmly woven into the history of modern Longhorn genetics. From raising cattle that carry the Hubble's prefix with pride to helping identify influential bulls early on, to serving the breed through leadership and fraturities, Mark's story is one of patience, partnerships, and passion. And today we get to hear how it all came together. So, Mark, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and the history of your family farm?

SPEAKER_00 1:28

I am the fifth generation here. Um and my forefathers settled this back in 1895. We were dairy farmers up until 2000. And then now we just raise Angus and Longhorns and you know, and a fair amount of hay and some corn and some beans. So um, yeah, I'm just the fifth generation and hopefully it carries on many more.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

So five generations is kind of crazy for a farm today and dating back all the way to 1895. Do you have photos of what the farm looked like back then? Or have you been told stories of, you know, kind of how it operated and maybe how it has evolved other than the the dairy and the crops?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, yeah, I mean, we don't really have much photos back way back when, no. Um just we have aerials from probably the 70s on through of the farm, you know, which has changed quite a bit over that time.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

So you mentioned that, you know, back then there was a focus on dairy and also a lot more focus on farming the land. Uh what turned what you know transitioned or drove the changes to changing uh your direction to Longhorns?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Uh just because that's my passion. Um so I just gradually grew it over time um to where we are now, which is probably about 250 head. I just kind of did a rough count yesterday. I I would say we're probably around that. Uh I think we're gonna have between 125 and 150 calves born in 2026. But it's, you know, it's just me and my passion. I'm the only one that, well, other than my son Garrett, that really cares about longhorns. Before that, you know, we were just dairy farming and that it encompasses. Yeah, it's just me.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

So talk to me a little bit about how that passion started.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

I've always been intrigued by longhorns. Even when I was young, like in high school, I had a winter beater, and um, I had these little set of horns that are, you know, kind of mounted on the on the little wooden frame. And I I actually mounted them on the hood of my car, kind of like boss hog and the um duke's a hazard. But I just was always intrigued by longhorns. And then, gosh, I guess it would have been in 1995, yeah. Um, my first wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I'm like, man, I don't know. I got thinking, I'm like, oh, a longhorn would be cool. So she got me a longhorn. It was, it was just like a white heifer roper type, you know, nothing much, but that's what got me hooked. And uh I just went from there and never look back.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Did you ever dream or think that you would be as well known and successful within the breed as you are today, uh, back when you you had that first uh that first one for Christmas?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

No, no, you know it's it's funny. Um I mean, when you're first starting out and you see all the big breeders and the big names and that, and just a little guy from Michigan, and um you just you don't really think you ever could make a difference or have an impact. But I know Tom reminded me, it was a while ago, that we were driving around and talking about that, and and I said, man, we'll never be we'll never be, you know, big time like those guys are, and I was wrong. You just you never know what life's gonna bring and the opportunities that you're gonna get. So it seems impossible, but it really isn't.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Well, you say that you're just a little guy from Michigan, but with 250 head, are you you have to be one of the largest longhorn breeders in the state, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah. But that was back when I started. You asked me when I started, if I thought that. You know, I didn't it in the beginning I was just gonna have a handful anyway, and then it's you know, it's definitely an addiction. Um you know, even to this day, as many as I got, you still go to a sale and looking at what you could buy and what you um it just it just never stops. So but in the beginning, no, I never envisioned to be where I am.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

So how much do you think your history and experience with raising dairy cattle carried over when you did get started with the Longhorns in terms of understanding their, you know, traits and breeding and and doing the work on your pedigrees?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I'm sure that it had um a fair amount of of uh influence. I mean, I've just always grown up with cattle, so I always understood them. And I'm not, you know, they don't scare me or anything like that. So the longhorns and the horns themselves, obviously you gotta be aware of them, but it's not like you know, they scared me. So um, but as for knowing cattle, yeah, I mean I I grew up with them. So um you understand what a good trait and a bad trait is, and um, you know, this it's just one of those things you learn through experience that is invaluable, really.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Well, we're gonna pick your brain a little bit further in today's episode about some of the the famous animals that you've uh bred and contributed, you know, to the genetics. But one question I have before we move on to kind of the history of your program is um as I understand it, your farm used to be named Hubble Foothill Farms in those early generations. Uh, what made you decide to drop the foothill from the name when you kind of took over and and you know turned your passion for longhorns into the the branding for today's uh today's farm?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Well, it is still really called um Hubble Foothill Farms. That's the farm itself, but Hubble Longhorns is the Longhorn side of it, I guess you would say. It's that it's not different or changed or anything like that. It's it's just um if I would I mean Hubble Foothill Farms doesn't incorporate the name Longhorns, so I just I never ever used it. And Hubble Longhorns just started out in the beginning, and then why would I change it?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

And does that come from your location in the state or um does it have a different meaning?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

It's because of the hills here. Um, our farm is well, we have two farms, but the main farm, the original farm, is really, really hilly. And so I guess my great-great-grandpa must have been the one to name it. I've never really asked um who named it. I mean, it's it's quite obvious why that we named it that. So yeah, it's all relative to the hills.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Well, let's go back to 1995. So that's when you you first begin raising them. You got your first ones. Um, just tell us a little bit about kind of what what you were thinking and and what your logic was when you started off versus how you've grown to where you are today. Just kind of walk us through your your history, uh, and and then later on we'll go over some philosophies and some lessons learned.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Well, I've always it's always been about big horns for me. So um in the beginning, even that was what I guess turned me on. Um I like a nice body confirmation and color. Um, and obviously pedigree is is very important. Um, but you know, horn is, I mean, they're Texas long horns, they're not Texas shorthorns, so that's that's always something that's been the main emphasis for me. Um I try hard not to single trait breed, but in the beginning, I would say that that was more of a single trait uh breeding in my part. Um, but you know, nowadays we've gotten, I mean, there's it's so different. There's so many bighorn cattle out there that you you can choose from anymore that um we didn't have in the beginning. There was just a handful of bighorn ones. I mean, mostly it was butler stuff, really. And they were definitely the most consistent to producing horn as well. That was my main focus and goal was bigger horn the better.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

So around the time you were getting started, I think was about when I was wrapping up my career in the in the youth show ring. And I'm just I always ask folks who have been around that long this question. What did you think a huge long-horned cow's tip to tip was at that time in 1995 and around then?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

I mean, a 70, I I'm pretty sure 70 was like the wow factor. There might have been some 80s. I I don't know if there was.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

I feel like if there were 80s, we didn't hear about them, right? Somebody was keeping them hidden.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah. I mean, back then it's 70 inches, and you're just going, wow, how did they do that? You know? Um, you know, and now you look at it. I mean, we're we're close to 120. It's just, it's just crazy how the bar has risen. And then you think about you think about these calves that are like in the belly or, you know, just the young stock right now, where are they gonna be? It is it's mind-boggling, really. Just the leaps and bounds that we've taken.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

For sure. It's it it is for folks that have been around, you know, as long as as long as you have to see the changes that the breed has gone gone through, there's been there's been a lot of them. You know, I I think if you look at different spans in time, for sure, you know, from maybe early 2000s on, we've seen more, more change in the cattle than we did maybe the hundred years, you know, uh prior for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

What do you think, like when you think back to those days in the late 90s, early 2000s, as you were growing your herd, what was the most common horn shape?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Well, obviously the functional horn. I mean, that's what I've been trying to breed out forever. Um, it's the most, it's the hardest thing to breed out, that's for sure. But I mean, look back the original longhorns that lived out in the wild, and that that horn set is what you know, what the bull had that won the fight that bred the cows, and I'm sure the cows that you know defended themselves and their calves the best, they had the functional um, you know, forward swoop type horn. So it's just natural that that would be in there. Um now, you know, we have done an excellent job of uh of getting away from that. Um you still see it some, but it's definitely not as prevalent as it was by any means.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

What do you feel like the second most popular horn set was? Do you feel like handlebar was still kind of the the second most at that time?

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Oh, so you're talking like desirable popular. I thought you meant most like what most common longhorns had.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Well, both. Like I'm just you know, I'm just wanting to talk through with you, you know, um I I think both. You know, your your first answer was spot on. And then, you know, yeah, let's talk a little bit about maybe what folks, especially those who were acquiring a lot of butler animals into their herd, what they were seeing at the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

I've always loved the the handlebar, the the roll out and then roll back over. And if you can put a nice, even a full twist in that, it's even more beautiful. But yes, I've always loved that. And that was um JP Rio Grande, you know. I mean, he he was just the most beautiful bull. He had that horse set as a bull himself, and and he threw that a lot, very well, it was the most consistent of any bulls then that um that he gave that. It wasn't, you know, there's no bull that does anything 100%, but he was the best at it. Hunt's Command Respect was great at it as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Let's talk a little bit about how you built your herd that you know we'll call today's herd. Um, so you know, you talk a lot on your website about growing through careful selection and how it's really important to you that you retain your heifers. Uh, why do you feel like that approach has worked and why is it important to you?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Well, the heifers are the future, obviously. And um, I mean, it takes a lot of times a couple of years to really know and sometimes longer, but it's hard to have patience, that's for sure. So, I mean, it's basically it's because I mean what you what you're building is is that next generation, and that never ends. I mean, I breeding longhorns is what I love to do. I mean, I I love to see, I like to think in my mind, is this gross gonna work? What's it gonna make? And then see if it does happen. And and then the more consistently that I can do that, um you know, the more success, the more I enjoy it. So the heifers are are your future, and obviously you can't keep them all, but some of them will shine early, and you're like, man, I you know, I love watching this one, and then some of them will will shine later, but um it's it's the future basically.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

So what are you looking at? The the first time a heifer hits the ground and you're you know, even when you go out to see if it's a heifer or a bull, um, you've had you like you said in your head, you've planned this breeding strategy, this pedigree. What are some of the first things you're looking for to see if that heifer has the the traits that you're wanting?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Flat horn, how the horn's coming out of the head, if it's got a backward angle, if it's staying more lateral. Um, I mean, that to me is I'm that's my first thing I look for. Obviously, I want confirmation. Um great color is always a big bonus in the beginning. Because if you got great color, then you know, if you if you have don't have great color, you know you're not gonna be showing that in the fraturities. Because without great color, it's it's harder to win. Um, and if they've got extra navel, things like that, you know that it's probably not gonna be uh a fraturity type animal. I love fraturities, it's you know, it is just a lot of fun. It's it's just one day right then. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't make the animal less of an animal in the long run per se, but it's a fun competition that is right then and what that animal is about then and not you know before and not after realistically. So that's where the color and the confirmation part comes in. And then obviously the flat horn is gonna help in the in fraturity as well. But yeah, so that's what I look for.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

So can I ask you when you talk about confirmation, what specifically are you looking at on that young animal to decide if she kind of meets your standards? Because I feel like you a lot of your animals and your breeding, you know, you have very nice sized, good confirmation, big body animals. Um, so I'm just curious what you would tell other folks, you know, what are you looking for that you would advise them to also look for in their young animals?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

You just gotta be honest with yourself when you look at it. And has it got a flat back? Is it got a good squared off tail set? Are the legs placed correctly underneath? They're not too far forward, they're not too pulse-legged, um, you know, the ankle's good, so the feet are at the right angle, uh, trim neck, a feminine face is nice on a on a heifer. Obviously, it's not it's not gonna be a make or break per se. I mean, it can, but generally speaking, it's not as big as influence as like a back. You don't want too much navel. A little bit of navel can be okay because sometimes that means they're gonna be a bigger animal and they'll grow into it. And then obviously a splashy paint job is just you know, speckles or whatever is awesome. That's gonna, once again, that gives you another advantage in the show ring, too.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

So going back to your comment about how much you love fraturities, who has been your favorite fraturity winner of yours over all these years?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Oh goodness. That's a hard one. Oh man. 20 gauge never lost when I showed him. Um and it and it's it's funny too, is you know, his offspring do so well in in the fraternities too. So much style, just thick muscled, great confirmation, great color, um, always plenty of size. That always helps too. Um so just so correct, you know. I I guess uh he's the one that hits my mind first, and there's been plenty of offspring out of him that have done really, really well too. Um I almost think maybe Hubble's butt shot never lost in the show ring as well, and he actually looks a lot like his daddy. Um, I've had a lot, a lot of heifers that I've shown and and done well with, so probably 20 gauge.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

So I notice you just call them 20 gauge, not Hubble's 20 gauge.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Well, it's just quicker. But do you say everybody knows it's Hubble's 20 gauge?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

I don't This is one of my questions. I'm gonna put you on the spot. Do you think everyone does, or do you think that, you know, because it's your philosophy and your consistency, you know, so your name is on all of these animals. Are you insulted at all when people shorten it? Are you do you feel like they know and they it is just shorter to say it? I've I've always wanted to ask folks with those prefixes, you know, what how they feel about it when they're left off.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Oh, that is a good question, isn't it? Um at times you can be offended if people don't put it on there. Maybe in advertising, yes. If so, if you're advertising something and it's not put on there. Um, but when people are just talking, no. It's just easier to leave that off, I think. I do it myself, you know. Um, so I mean, I I didn't put my name on the front of there really to be braggadocious, I guess. Um, and the reason I did it is Watson. Wes Watson always had Watson, you know, whatever. But it was just a number. He didn't name the animal as well. But that was where I decided that I wanted to put my name on there. In fact, when I did it, Tom Smith told me that that was a stupid idea. And I would, it would hurt me on selling cattle. But I said, well, I don't care. I'm gonna do it anyway. And so no regrets on it now. If that's a good enough answer for you.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if it it matters or not, you know, because it's it's already behind you, you know, you've kind of have that tradition, but there are so many new breeders that we interview who it's their dream one day to be able to have their name at the beginning of an animal as well known as 20 gauge or Roman Seven or Rio's Glory, you know. And so I I don't think it's braggy at all. I think it's you know, just it shows all of the hard work that you've put in, and and it's it's one of these things that all these new breeders coming in aspire to. So good. So let's kind of stay on this track of some of these very influential cattle that you have uh you have bred. Um tell me, just tell me what you think made uh 20 gauge stand out. Hubble's 20 gauge stand out. I'll I'll do better too.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

What made him stand out himself in the in what in his pedigree made him great? Are you asking, or the physical characteristics?

SPEAKER_02 22:56

In his ped in his pedigree, in his you know, his Horn, his confirmation, his breeding legacy, just kind of everything. What what is gonna make him go down as one of the greatest bulls, you know, in our time?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

I think well you can't be denied that his offspring excel in the futurity ring. Um and I mean there's offspring out there out of him that are in the hundreds. I I think it's the whole the whole package that he passes on, really. That I mean, beautiful color. It's just a complete package animal that um, you know, God bless me with. I mean, I I chose that particular mating, yes, but I mean we all choose matings that never work too. And he's got a he's got a brother that's M2 rifleman, and uh he is a nice bull. He was never quite as perfect as 20 gauge. Um, in fact, I sold him to Tom Attot, and and I and I fully, you know, was transparent with Tom about it. I mean, there wasn't a lot of difference, it was just 20 gauge was just a little bit better all around. And and Tom was just getting started, and so he asked that he could put his name on M2 Rifleman, and I was fine with that. So, and he, in fact, he's still out there, and there's been some good offspring out of him, but he is he was he was never 20 gauge and he's proven never to be as good as 20 gauge, quite honestly. And maybe he didn't get as many opportunities, but I still just think 20 gauge had had that special um that special thing about him, you know, that he that he passed on. And and it's in the ball.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

So was it evident was it evident at a very young age? Did you, you know, you tell me a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, by by weaning, he was already s you know, standing out. He look he just looked sweet. He was he was just perfect. Like I said, he never lost any knee for charities. Um and granted it wasn't as you know, I'm not so blind that I you know, I say, oh, he probably would have these days. But I don't know, maybe he would have, maybe he wouldn't have. It wasn't as many it wasn't as competitive back then, but it was still competitive.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

So um You mentioned that you planned that breeding, you know, so you were probably anxiously awaiting him and his his sibling. Uh tell me a little bit about what made you decide on that mating of his siren dam. Tell me a little bit about his siren dam.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Um well, so Real Glory, his mother, is out of the first calf crop that I got out of uh Rio Grande. JP Rio Grande, everybody calls him Rio Grande. Um and so she was out of the very first calf crop, and she herself um was was just perfect, just absolute perfect animal. And Jimmy Jones, so you know, you're always looking for the next cross. And um, and so I talked to Jimmy Jones and he's like, oh man, Mark, I got this bull. I really, I really want you to check him out. And it was a concealed weapon, and so of course it was a long time ago. I I don't even know if he sent me pictures now, but anyway, I ended up going down there and looking at him, and he was he was beautiful bull, but his legs were a little bit too short in proportion to his body. Um, and I was just like, man, he's just man, Jimmy, his legs are just a little bit too short, and so I just didn't do anything. And then I think another year went around and Jimmy's like, man, Mark, he's I just love this bull. I really think you ought to get in on him. And so I think it was I just finally said, you know what, let's let's do it. Um, but I always looked at him as a tool, and and I only bred him for two years. I wish I would have bred him longer because he ended up really being a great producer. But um, so I just put him on cows that had plenty of leg under them, and um and Rio Glory was a big cowl with a lot of leg. And so that was obviously and I was looking for the next cross, which concealed weapon actually ended up being a really great cross on the Rio Daughters. Um, but that took a few years to figure out, and I only bred him for two, and then we got rid of them. But so, you know, that was like I said, the I was looking forward to that cross because I I could see it really, really working and it and it did work out.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

So this next question I have might be a little touchy, and I'm I'm trying to think of a good way to ask it. But you told a great story about how you were very transparent with the Matats about Rifleman, um, you know, and how he was a full brother to uh Hubble's 20 gauge. Do you think that there's any lessons to be learned, you know, years later when you can contrast those two bulls and everything that they've done for just across the industry when it comes to marketing ability of full siblings, half siblings, the values of animals placed on the bloodline where where you know one is proven where maybe the others, you know, through whether it be embryo work or that sort of stuff, are still there's still a risk, even with one proven animal. Do you does that make sense? Do you know what I'm asking?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

No, say that again.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

What so just I I guess I was hoping you could speak a little bit to, you know, like Hubble's 20 gauge is maybe the exception to the rule, right? So with rifleman being his full brother, he still didn't, you know, l live up to as as as much as what 20 gauge did, because even though they're full brothers, they still have different traits and just kind of the, you know, there's a lot of weight put on full sisters, half sisters, full brothers in the industry where I think some folks get wrapped up in that versus looking at the animals themselves. So I just didn't know if you could speak to any advice about that or if that's too touchy of a question.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

It's not too touchy. Um, I just that is is tough. It never seems like full siblings ever are the same in Longhorns. Um, and it seems, I'm sure you can find exception, but it seems like the firstborn is the best most times. Um not always, but it seems that way more commonly. Um I I couldn't tell you, you know, with with 20 gauge and rifleman which one was born first, but it wasn't it was um it was a flush, so I don't really know if it has any bearings in those cases. It was just that 20 gauge always he stood out just a little bit better. Um obviously Matats knew it was the same genetics, and and you just you hope that they both pass those genetics on. I mean, really that's what we all hope when we buy a bull or we buy a cow, you know, that they're gonna pass on those genetics that that we like in them, and whether they, you know, physically carry those traits, or if it's in their mother or father or great-grandparents that something that we're looking for, you know, we just hope that they pass it on consistently. And and obviously longhorns, that's a very hard thing to to know and and actually even get. It's getting better, I think, but it is definitely a slow road.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Well, let's talk a little bit more about Hubble's Real Glory, uh Hubble Hubble's 20 Gauges uh dam. Uh she was another very well-known cow that you were responsible for breeding. What made her special back then and what has her legacy become?

SPEAKER_00 31:45

She was just just a super nice heifer when she was just a calf. Um, you know, nice flat horn, great confirmation, um, great size, just beautiful. She was born red. Um and then she turned Brindle, which it was kind of funny when we first started getting calves out of Rio. Um, is getting getting all these reds and um oh no, sorry, that was catch-it. Catch it was throwing the reds. And then they and then they started turning to Brendel, and then we're all loving them. Um Rio's actually Rio's turned a lot of them turned Brendel on Rio. It was just a little bit slower. Um, his mother had some Brendel and her, and it ended up coming through in a lot of of the offspring. Um, you know, honestly, on the subject of Rio, I know he didn't ask me this, but it was it was funny as you really could see in Rio daughters his mother a lot of times and in the good ones, you know. And so once again, I carry a lot of weight in my bulls and they're damn, you know, because I think that's the second most influential um trait that that bull's gonna pass on, besides the mother of the calf, is the mother of the bull. And so I like that that influence to a large extent, really. I I carry a lot of weight in that. Um, but real gory, she was just a beautiful heifer and then grew into a beautiful cow. Um, she was in mid-80s for a long, long time. She did, she did get into the 90s. Um, it was just I love the horn set on her, the big body, um, great disposition disposition. Um, and so I just I hung on to her, and then I, you know, obviously 20 gauge was I don't know that, I don't believe that was her first calf. I can't even remember. I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Um, but I've gone on to have, you know, several daughters that I love too, and granddaughters. It really it passed on through. I had I bred her to Teos Star, and that crossed beautiful body on it, but it was white, which I guess it came through Teos Star, but it ended up being Rhone, and and she never got a lot of horn, but her daughters were always just amazing. So it was just kind of one of those situations where the genetics were there and it just skipped, it skipped a generation, but did pass on. So yeah, Real Glory produced Tejas Glory. Tejas Glory produced She's a 10, and then um I've got several She's a 10 daughters still here. So it's just that consistency that I got out of her along with the with the beautiful animal herself. Um, you know, they just made her a cornerstone cow here for me. Yeah, and and you know, that goes back to right in the very beginning. Um Tom Smith and Dick Lowe and I were coming back from Texas. I don't even remember what sale we were at, but we heard about um, we heard this breeder back then, he hadn't even been in right now. I mean, Richard Burquist, was um going through a divorce and he was selling everything. And he had bought some really good Delta cows like Delta Judy, Delta Ronita, Delta Gleam. Um, he had some Watson 83 cows, he had 3S Favorite Beauty, just some really amazing cows. And then he had had um Watson 83 Bull, who was a really great bull back then. Um and so we stopped in there, found out where he lived, because you know, back then it was a little harder, but um, we stopped in there and he had this group of heifers, and I ended up buying 11 heifers um all out of just amazing cows. And so that was that was really what put me on track, I would say, in the longhorn industry. And then, and then when I bought real, that changed everything. But um, but so real glory goes back to one of those cows, it was Delta Gleam that I got out of that original group. It was kind of cool, you know, how when you when you can look back like that, then you can see kind of milestones or things that made a big difference in in how things turned out.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Kind of a uh everything's related full circle moment for sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Um, so we're definitely gonna talk about JP Rio Grande. Uh, so I don't want to skip ahead uh quite yet because I have one other question I wanted to ask you before we get into that section. I'm just curious, uh, who are some other cattle with Hubble in their name or the horned H on their hip that you feel were influential or are important to you uh that other folks may not know the history about or the importance of?

SPEAKER_00 36:40

So these are ones that that I bred or used?

SPEAKER_02 36:43

The ones that you bred.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I bred. Okay. Um well ones that I that I always really liked. Um I had there was Hubble's Temptu. Um she was out of Catch You, or no, Hubble's Catch You, who's out of Temptu. That's how that went. Yeah. So Temp Jew was a tempter daughter that bred to um, yeah, it was Catch It. Yeah. They made Hubble's Catch You. She was always a really beautiful animal. Um and her Hubble, she's a 10. Um, she's just been a super producer for me. Uh, I still do own her. There was Hubble's Texas Tiger. Um, I think she, yeah, actually that cow died here, but she produced a lot of um, a lot of really nice daughters that went on to produce really well as as well. Um Hubble's Rio Rivers. Rivers was an old cow that I bought. I mean, she wasn't old then, but uh a really pretty gruela cow. I think she was half butler. Um, I think Charlene Simpkin was a breeder on her, but she was a really pretty Grula cow with a really pretty horn. Kind of went out up and over. And um, and I got a lot of daughters, you know, uh uh females out of that line that have been really good. It's it kind of the Rio Rivers line. Um I got I got Cookies and Cream now, who's my favorite cow. Um I won uh I won a trailer with her at the Legends and Show Rise, and I've got three real nice daughters out of her, and um, she's probably my favorite cow right now. So that's what comes to mind.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

So those are the animals that you bred and raised. Um tell me a little bit about animals that you bought that impacted your program.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Well, I guess I would say bulls mostly in that category, because obviously, um, well, there was you know the 11 heifers that I bought back from the Burkwist dispersal, well, before the dispersal, actually, um, those had a great impact. Um, and then obviously JP Rio Grande was to be the first one. Um, and then concealed weapon, and then there was cowboy catch it checks, full brother's tough. Um, he he actually it's been kind of cool because concealed weapon crossed really, really well on Rio Daughters, and then catch it crossed really, really well on concealed weapon daughters, and then 20 gauge, who I bred, but he crossed really, really well on catch it daughters. So, you know, I'm part of the reason those bulls worked well is because I found they worked well on my cows, but I also went on to work well on a lot of other people's cows, so you know it wasn't exclusive. And then female-wise, you know, I mean that's that's hard because they don't have as great of an impact on your program as a bull does. Um and there's been a lot of years and a lot of cows. So that one that one's a hard one to to really pinpoint, but I guess thinking back to those original 11, and there's been other good ones, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Well, let's get into one of the topics I know folks are dying to hear more about. So you were very instrumental in identifying JP Rio Grande early on. Tell me that story.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Well, I was I'm always looking for a bull that never is a never-ending quest. And I always want my bull to have a cow that I love, you know, potentially the best cow that I can find that that I that I think will obviously reproduce her traits. Um, there are some bighorn cows out there that aren't able to reproduce. Um but so I was back then we didn't have the internet really. We didn't have hired hand like we do to look at progeny pages. We didn't even have arrowhead, if I can remember correctly, to refer to. And so you had to look at um sale catalogs and and magazines to to really find the great cattle. And I came upon um TXW lucky lady that uh Johnny and Pat Robinson owned, and uh she was one of the bigger horned cows back then. I don't think she was the biggest. And so I called up Johnny Robinson and asked him if he had any bulls out of her, and he said that he actually did. Uh, she had a bull calf at side, and um it was but it was out of Grand Slam, and I was not a big fan of Grand Slams, he had a bad back, kind of a sway back, and so that always worried me. And he was solid red, which kind of worried me too, because you don't want a calf crop of solid red calves per se. But um, so I asked him how the back was on the calf, and he said, Oh, the back looked great, and and I told him my concern about um Grant Sam's bad back, and he said, I tell you what, Mark, you have my guarantee. If this bull gets a bad back, I'll just I'll give you your money back. So um I said, okay, well, let's, you know, let's wait and see what he looks like at Wiening, and I'm very interested. So Weening came and he looked great. So um so we went ahead and I went ahead and bought him and I asked Dave, Dave Hoving, who um who him and I did a lot of stuff back then together, and great friend of mine. I said, Hey, you want to partner with me on this little bull? It was only 2,500 bucks. I said, Well, you know, split it, and if he doesn't work out, we're not out a lot. And if he does, then we're gonna both win. And and it, you know, it made advertising more affordable. You split it and all round win win deal. So Dave said sure. So we bought them and brought him home, and then um, then we measured him at a year old because his horns were just you know, they're flat out, just like you like. And he was 32 and something inches tip to tip. I don't remember exactly what it was, maybe a quarter or three-eighths or something, and which that was unheard measurement. Never had there been a bull to measure, I don't even know over 30 inches, possibly back then. And he was 32 and something. Um, so we were just like blown away. So I took out, I think it was just an eighth of a page ad in the trails, and I put a picture of him, and then I would put his measurement in how many months it was. And so I just started doing that every month, just updating it. And little did I know, but most of the industry was just watching and waiting to see what his next measurement the next month would be. And I didn't even really do it for any other reason, is I was proud, and it was it was you know an amazing measurement, and that was basically the only way you could tell anybody. And um, so he was born in November, and we were getting ready to go down to the horn showcase to measure him, which we're figuring he was gonna win. And uh lo and behold, I get a phone call from Bob Loomis, and he wants us to stop in on our way down to the uh to the horn showcase and see him before we go. And I was like, sweet, he's pretty much knew what that meant, and partnering with Bob would, you know, that's like huge. So we stopped in, and sure enough, he wanted uh he wanted to get in on the partnership. So then, so it was it was Dave and I, each and Bob had a third, and you know, he went on to win the horn showcase, and I think he probably won a few after that as well, and just you know, basically made history. So that was was probably the funnest, um, the funnest ride in in Longhorn Jet, really.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

In your own words, what influence do you feel like JP Rio Grande had on the breed?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Um, I I think you could say he's had the greatest influence. Um, minus him would be total different looking Longhorns out there, I think. Um, you know, him and Hunts Command respective just basically changed the landscape. I mean it's crazy when you look at what how far we've came. And uh I'm not sure we'd be where we are if it wasn't for that.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

You know, once you and your partnership with Bob and everyone got rolling and he was winning horn showcases and you know, folks were interested. How how did it come about? You know, how did you decide as a group if you were gonna sell semen or uh value and market his offspring? Talk to me about that process a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Um, well, I mean, semen sales was was nothing new. So, and that's it was a great way for to basically provable, you know, because generally speaking, you think if people are gonna spend the money on semen, they're gonna put it in their in their better cows, not their lesser cows. So potentially has the opportunity to get great offspring out there beyond just what you produce. So that that makes good sense, really. And man, the sons and the daughters were always very popular. I mean, in high demand, because they they were great, you know. That's what made Rio great. You can have a great measurement, that doesn't mean you're gonna reproduce and and and be consistent. That was the beauty of Rio was that his consistency was was second to none. I mean, there just had not been another bull out there that could put as consistent quality-wise um horn and you know, the whole enchilada really, of an offspring on. He legitimately built what he was, you know. It was a pipe, it wasn't just a measurement. Um he legitimately you know did what he should.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Who do you think some of his most infamous uh offspring will go down in history as?

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Well, I mean, I'd have to say that um Tough Check's mother, who's Rio Catch It, uh probably go down as you know, the greatest, most influential. When you think of how much offspring is out there out of her sons, um, I think there was only one daughter that I'm aware of a lot of her. So I would have to say that um it'd be BL Rio Catch It, probably for sure. I mean, there's there's there's so many other ones out there with with his name on it.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Is there anything else you want to share with our listeners specifically about JP Rio Grande before we switch to the next topic?

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Um he would flatten out horn. That was one of his greatest attributes, is he would more commonly lay a higher horn cow's offspring down. He would flatten out the horn. Um, he let the cow dictate the color more times than not. Um he threw a lot of Brindle, it just was a slow Brendel coming on. Um gosh. I mean, this the disposition on them was always just outstanding. They were just really all around nice cattle. I hung on to him um almost until the end. Because I always believe if you got a bull that's producer, until you have a replacement that's as good or better, um, it's pretty dumb to let go of them.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

And who was his replacement that you found?

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Cowboy Catch It Checks.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

And where did JP Rio Grande move on to?

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Um, Chris Clark bought him. I believe he bought all of him. And then, gosh, I know Chris was the one that bought him from me. Now, whether he had a partner or two, it almost seemed I know he did, but I don't remember who they were. Yeah, pretty sure, I'm pretty certain Chris was the one.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Well, let's talk a little bit about family and legacy when it comes to Hubble Longhorn. So your son Garrett joined the operation by purchasing his first cow in 2015, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Yep, I think so. Sounds right.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

So, what was that moment like for you as a father?

SPEAKER_00 49:09

You know, it wasn't like an earthquake moment. It was, I mean, they had the boys had gone with me to Longhorn stuff, and so they were a part of it already. And so when Garrett wanted to buy a cow, I was like, cool, that that's awesome. Um, and you know, she was just kind of an average cow. She ended up being a really amazing producer, luckily for him. So um, it was yeah, I mean, I I I've just always been involved with my kids, and so it was it was just cool. It's funny as my other son has absolutely no interest in cattle, so he even to this day does not have any any uh likings of of cattle. So John likes the crop side of farming, so that you know, I still have that with him, but yeah, I mean I haven't involved in longhorns with me is you know undescribable. Um he's my favorite one to talk about cattle with to just genetics and where you know where what direction we're gonna go, what bulls. It's a dream come true. And he's you know he's gonna be very successful with longhorns. I already can see that. He's got an eye for them and and a brain for it.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

So well, along with family comes friendships, especially in the longhorn industry. Um, so you've already mentioned a few names like Tom Smith, Dick Lowe, uh Dave Hoving. Uh, you all have shared many years and and many miles, you know, traveling from Michigan to Texas and all over. Tell me a little bit more just about how those friendships started.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

There's one common denominator with pretty much all of my friends. And guess what that is?

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Honestly, Mark, I'd be kind of scared to guess what that could be.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Oh, come on now. It's longhorns. Oh, so yeah, I mean, I don't even really know how Tom and I met or Dick or any, you know, how we actually came about to meet, but I mean, Tom and I first started traveling together just because we were at the same age and just getting into it, and you know, we both had the same fire and common denominators, and just man, we were just best buddies right from the start. We had man, we had a ton of fun, that's for sure. And then Dick got in and he started traveling with us some. He never never quite as much as Tom and I, but but quite a bit. And in fact, I remember it was when Dick was first getting in, you know, he was older than us, he's probably 20 years older than us, and we'd be driving down the road and talking pedigrees, and he'd be like, Who, oh man, who who's that out of? And he's just trying to think. So Tom and I oh my gosh, Dick, because him and I just knew pedigrees like crazy, because that's all we ever thought about. And uh, so we started we would quiz Dick just going down the road, okay. Who's this out of Dick? Who's this out of, you know? And and he finally he learned it, but it was it was just kind of funny. Because he got into the game a little bit later. But um, yeah, we had we had a lot of good times, that's for sure. Not a good laugh.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Is there any any road trip stories you can share with us or any sales stories or or anything uh that still make you laugh that are safe to share on the podcast?

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Oh man, just Stephen. Oh, Tom is Tom's half crazy, you know that.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

No problem.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

It's got a little alcohol and oh I do know he didn't, he wouldn't drink and drive, but um we would be we'd be flying down the highway, you know, it was always nine miles an hour over the speed limit because you can usually, you know, you don't get pulled over to a nine over. And we'd have a cattle on the trailer, be driving, and somebody'd be going slow, and Tom would just be like feet, just a few feet off their bumper and just offset a little bit. And he's like, I'm like, holy smokes, Tom goes the better get over, I'm gonna run him over. And sure enough, man, they'd they would get over, but oh yeah. He he's a hard driver, that's for sure. But you know, I mean he cusses like a sailor and he's rough around the edges, but you know, Tom would never lie to you, and he would do anything he could to help you, you know, and those those are my kind of friends. They're you know, they're real.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

And both uh Tom and Dick have have also both had a long legacy of breeding very well-known animals. So those those uh pedigree quizzes and all those uh road trips definitely I think uh help helped you all.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Yeah, and you know, we all had just a little different taste in Longhorns, and so um there was never an unhealthy, we were always competitive, but it was we're always just had a little bit different eye and taste, and and and we were all completely honest with each other, and didn't mean the other one seen it that way, but you know, we could bounce off ideas and yeah, it was it's just really cool.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Did you all ever go in partnership on any animals together, or did your different tastes, you know, kind of make that harder?

SPEAKER_00 54:39

You know, that's a great I can't think of any right off the top of my head, but the super hard part about partnering with anybody else in Michigan. Um, I'm I think we have probably on one or two cows or something, but that even then is kind of hard because then you got to split the offspring. Um but bull wise, um, it was it was always hard to partner with someone up here because they they need them at the same time and nobody wants to go every other year or things like that. Where Dave Hoving up, you know, he he was close and we had smaller herds back then than we do now. Plus, we kind of learned a lesson with Rio because it got to be real difficult, you know, later on in the partnership, trying everybody to get bred what they wanted to him.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

So are you all the friend group that is bidding against each other in the Calcutta's and and giving secret signals to run the other up that way, or no?

SPEAKER_00 55:32

Oh, that's been known to happen. That's just having fun, you know. That's just that's just good fun there.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Nobody had to walk home because of it.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Nope, not yet.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Uh well, along with friends and family in the industry, um, you've also held some different leadership roles. Um, I believe you are you have previously been elected to the board of directors for the TLBA and just recently were again, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

So why why is it important for you to give back in that way?

SPEAKER_00 56:07

It's just a big part of my life, you know, and I feel like being involved is always wise and smarter than not being involved, and then you know what's happening and can be more proactive than reactive, I guess. Um you know, it can be frustrating being on the board, but you always understand why things are done the way they're done when you're involved, even if you agree or disagree with it. At least you you had input and you seen the other side. So um, you know, there's been being on the board is is a thankless job and it's frustrating at times, and it's a very slow process for improvement. You never guess it when you get on, but when you look back, you're like, holy smokes, we still haven't got that done yet, but it's it's always harder than it it seems on the surface. So there's you know, there's been some some good stuff done during my time on the board. And I'm not gonna say that I was, you know, key key reasons for that, because that would not be true. Um, but at least I was there and part of it and had an opinion. And I just think it's better to give than than not than take.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Well, let's talk a little bit about the longhorn industry today and then looking ahead for not only the industry, but also Hubble longhorns. Uh, what trends stand out to you right now, both positive and those that are challenging?

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Oh, I I see, well, I think now it's easier to raise high-quality longhorns than it's ever been. There's just such a selection. I mean, if you look at all the great cows out there and the great bulls to choose from, um, and we don't all have the same eye and appreciate the same traits or want even the same traits, really. But it's just the the wealth of knowledge out there on the internet, whether it's, you know, obviously through hired hand websites when you can look at progeny. The beauty of hired hand to me is is there's so many breeders there, so easily connected to them just by a click. And you can see the progeny where we used to, you I mean, you had to remember who the great grandsire was, or try to remember, you know, what that calf looked like. And now, you know, we have all that right there. It's it's just amazing um how much easier it is. If you do your homework, if if you desire it, it's there. I see a lot of people loving the fraturities. I've loved them for a long, long time. It's just a really fun part of longhorns, and and and you build friendships and relationships while you're out there doing it that are great, you know, this friendly competition and having a good time looking at a bunch of really nice animals. Yeah, they're young, but um, they're not all gonna turn out to be as great as they look right then, or maybe some get better, but it's just a lot of fun. The Calcutta's are fun, um, and you get to see what's coming down the road. You know, you know what I mean, growing and the great stuff, really. And there's it's crazy how competitive it is now.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

What do you think newer breeders today sometimes overlook that experience teaches over time?

SPEAKER_00 59:27

I think the new breeders don't do their homework. They may and and maybe they don't really know exactly what it is that they really like, or you know, because I'll never tell someone to follow the trend or to buy what somebody else told them to buy, because at the end of the day, you need to buy what you like, what you what really turns you on, because it's gonna be at your house, you know, you're gonna look at it every day, hopefully, and you have to like what you have if you're gonna stay in this breed. And there's there's more to that to staying in the breed as well. Obviously, you you need to build some friends, relationships, and um, and and to get good advice from people you trust. You know, I I always recommend to listen to people that you like what they're doing, just because they can talk a good talk. Better look at their cattle, look what they're doing, and and and and like what that is, because that's what what they have is what they're gonna tell you. So, but you know, experience is everything. So you it's just hard to you you can have a new person get in and you could tell them everything you know and what not to do and how to do this and how to do that, but it more than likely they're not gonna listen to a lot of that because they don't have any experience behind it, and they're just gonna kind of do what they want to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

It's hard too when you're excited, right? You just want to go full steam ahead and you have that that excitement going for you. It's hard to step back and listen to expertise.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

It really, it is, you know, it's it's kind of like relationships in the beginning, it's this huge bonfire, and you can't see all the flaws and the negatives, and everything's great, and then you know, sooner or later it comes down to a to a little campfire. And but man, enjoy those, you know, enjoy that big fire in the beginning because it's a blast, and hopefully, you know, you don't make too many mistakes, and um, and you and you do get connected to people. That's so key in my mind to staying in the longhorns, is is being connected. You know, I hear people complain that we go, I go to these sales and I just nobody talks to me, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, and I I think if we had some sort of welcome wagon, it would probably be great. Um, but it, you know, it's hard because like with me, I'm at a sale and I'm always talking to somebody and because they're friends of mine. And I and it's hard to just, you know, blow them off to go over and talk to someone that you don't even know because it's the right thing to do, per se. I mean, that's a hard thing to do when when you got friends standing there talking to you. And so I understand that people get frustrated with that lack of relationships, but I think really that comes down to is well, then you should go out and start building them, go to ranches. People love to have you come see their cattle and and just talk. You don't have to buy, just just get to know them, and then next time you see them at a sale or something, you can you can feel like you can talk to them because you already got a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

So and we've all been there, we've all been the person with no one to talk to, right? It's just you know, now after 30 years or whatever, you know, you're not that person anymore. You've made those friends. So we all we all started there, we have to remember that, right? If you could go back to 1995 and tell yourself one thing related to the longhorns, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

Oh man, that is a toughie.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Um maybe not to put those horns on the front of your car like boss hog or no. No, that was sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

You know all the dates I got because of that? No, I'm just joking. Oh gosh, that's hard. Um, I guess probably the biggest thing is just try to make it fun, don't make it a job. And I I I just started out, I wasn't, you know, wasn't rich, still not rich. Um, you know, I just do what I can do. And you know, I see some people that everything has to be a profit for them or they're not happy, and they burn out fairly quickly in longhorns. So keep it fun. Um, I've never lost the passion for longhorns, and I don't, I don't know, maybe it's just my personality. I don't know. I don't know. I was I was blessed that I could do what I love to do, I know that. And so there's there's probably not, you know, there's always things you change. I'd anybody says that's not true, they're lying, but um, yeah, we don't need to always say them.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

No what excites you most about the future of Hubble Longhorns?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Um, I would say every year's calf crop, because I am okay, so I tell people this, and I think it sounds kind of funny, but I think we're created this way. I think God created us to in his own likeness, right? And so breeding longhorns is kind of like playing God, because if I choose how that cross is going to be, and then I get to watch it grow. And if it's good, I love it. If it isn't, then I don't. But you know, that's what to me a good part of my whole passion is I love to breed longhorns. I love to see if I can make something great. And every year is that and is another try, you know. And obviously, I love doing it with my son too. Um, but that that breeding side of it is um is I just love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Now that you've answered all of our high pressure questions, we're gonna end with a fun game. We've been playing kind of a guessing game with all of our guests this year. So are you up for up for those uh easy types of questions now?

unknown 1:05:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:28

All right, so we're gonna call this one lore or legend. Uh so I'm gonna throw out a few statements that get repeated in the Longhorn world, and it's your job to tell us whether it's lore, uh, meaning that there's some truth to it, or that it's legend, meaning that it's a myth more than reality, or uh I'll also accept the answer depends because we know uh context matters, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

True.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

Uh so here I have about 10 statements. You can spot a truly great longhorn when they're young.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Legend.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

Do you want to expand on that at all, or you just want to give the answer?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Um you you can't tell that. If you say you can, you're bullshit. Basically. You can hope, but you don't know. It takes, you know, it takes time to prove anything out.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Great cows are harder to find than great bulls.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Lore. A great bull can produce many offspring, and you're going to know by that a lot better. You know, a cow, yeah, you can flush her and that, but you still don't get the kind of numbers that you get from a bull.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

The most influential longhorns aren't always the highest selling ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Legend a lot of your high-selling cows are I mean, there's a reason it brought that, you know. I mean, some of them not, but I would say more are that way than not.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

A famous pedigree matters more than what's standing in the pasture.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

Laura. I think I think that genetics can skip a generation. Um, but to get a junky pedigree to to really be great is is very hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

If a program is consistent, it's not an accident.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

Laura. You don't you don't have success with accidents. That's just

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

Winning for charities is more about breeding decisions than luck.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:38

Absolutely true. You don't, once again, you you know, you can win one or two of luck, but if you're, you know, if you're good in the in the fraturity ring, there's a reason. It's because you know what you're doing and you have a good eye. You know, you have to be honest with yourself at home first and foremost. Is this animal correct? Is it, you know, is everything there? I mean, everything can be there and still not win because something else is gonna come in there that's just a little flashier or a little better horn set. I mean, a little big it's so and and judges. I mean, I've I've I'll win one time and go the next time and not win, and you'd be scratching your head. And it's the judges. Fraturities is it's one day, and it's just that day. Don't overthink it too much, don't get too wrapped up. I see so many of these people get so wound up when they don't win. And why didn't I win? Why'd that one win? And it's just that's that's basically three judges. I know there's five, usually the top and the bottom are thrown off, but you know, that's basically three people's opinion today. And you know, sometimes they're idiots and sometimes they're geniuses. I've had it where I have a heifer and she should have won that class. And I'm you know, I just I think the whole as a whole, they screwed up all the females, and then wham, I go win one or two with bulls. You know what? You can't call the judges an idiot now because you just won. So it's just one day I tell people that you know, don't if it's a good one, it's a good one. Don't get too stressed out.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

That's great perspective. One great bull can change a program faster than years of careful breeding.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

True. Because you got a whole calf crop, you know. You can do careful breeding and that's gonna take time, but you you in that sentence you said faster. So it will definitely change faster with a great bull.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

You can build a respected longhorn program without chasing trends.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:44

Lore. I don't recommend people to even chase um trends really. Do you need to breed what you like and then do your very best at doing that? And hopefully you have a good eye for cattle and what you like, you know, other other breeders, more than a couple, obviously, will like that too. And and in the long run, it will it'll work if those things are true. Um but chasing fads is you're you're always gonna be chasing and trying to catch up. I never recommend it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

The cattle that mean the most to their breeders aren't always the ones that win.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

Legend. We we get these people, and many, many people got heart strings um to certain animals that that just an emotional thing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

The biggest breeding mistakes usually come from impatience.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Legend. I I think the biggest breeding mistakes come from doing not doing your homework. Not really being honest with yourself and getting emotionally excited about an animal for the you know, whether they got one characteristic that you really love or someone tells you it's great, do your homework, you know? Look and see is that is that animal really gonna be what I what I'm wanting it, is it gonna produce what I want? So I think emotion can blur the blur the good good decision, you know, and not not so much impatience.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

Well, that was really great perspective. Um, and honestly, it's probably the kind of insight you only get from years of breeding and watching cattle mature and seeing how decisions actually play out over time. So thank you for answering all of those. And that actually wraps up all of the questions I had on my list. Before we go though, is there anything that you wanted to be sure that our listeners know or advice you wanted to give that we haven't covered in today's episode?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

Oh boy. No, I think I've been pretty, pretty thorough. You know, I just I think I really recommend people to get out there and and visit because it's it's such a key to all this, you know, just building relationships and looking at cattle and enjoying them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

And the best time to visit Hubble Longhorns would probably be in January, February.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Absolutely. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

Just bring your snowsuit and take them out on a snow snowmobile through the pasture.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

No, we'll go on a gator, we'll really freeze. No, probably anytime after it's starting in about May. You know, I start calving in May. And man, when the calves start hitting, you know, it's like Christmas. Just there's a new present.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:50

Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

Thank you for joining us on From the Pasture with Hired Hand and for sharing the story of Hubble Longhorns, a program built on patience, partnerships, and generations of commitment to agriculture. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and follow along for conversations from the pasture. Until next time, take care of your cattle, your land, and the legacy you're building.