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Hi there, I'm Molly. And I'm Jamie. We're the owners of Higher Hand Software.

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And this is season six of our From the Pasture podcast. For more than 15 years, we've been helping breeders promote their pedigree livestock with our easy-to-use, animal management-driven website software.

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Each week, we bring you stories from the pasture, breeding philosophies, ranch traditions, cattle knowledge, and conversation with folks using Hired Hand to power their livestock marketing. So settle in for today's episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand.

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Welcome back to From the Pasture. I'm your host, Molly Clubb, and today we're visiting Mike Crawford, a longtime Texas Longhorn breeder with a unique background in marketing, education, and innovation within the breed. Mike brings a business-minded perspective to Longhorns from early decisions around branding and domains to launching a beef program and even opening up his own processing facility. Mike, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Well, let's start at the beginning. How did you first get involved with Texas Longhorns and what drew you into the breed?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Okay. So uh it's it's pretty interesting. I I uh um for whatever reason, I thought I was gonna be I I watched too many John Wayne movies when I was when I was younger. So I thought it was kind of important, it was gonna be a cool thing to uh have a ranch. So I bought a ranch, uh, and my wife Pam, you know, a few years went by, and my wife Pam, who uh graduated from uh the University of Texas in Austin, uh, you know, I was scratching my head trying to figure out what I get her for her birthday that particular year, and and I uh I ended up buying uh two Longhorns uh for her on that particular birthday. And that's how I got in the breed.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

So tell me a little bit about those longhorns. Uh did she get to name them? Were they registered? Are they s were they still on the ranch for a long time? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

So uh they weren't registered. Of course, I had uh uh no knowledge. The only the only thing I I I did do was um there was a movie taking place with Billy Crystal um uh at the time. Um gosh, and now the name escapes me. Uh City Slickers. And and uh part in that movie uh he had to deliver a baby calf. And uh so I did my research before buying those two longhorns uh for my wife Pam to make sure that I didn't have to uh help them have their calves. So that was one of the things that was really key for me was to make sure that they would have their babies on their own without any assistance from me.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

That's that's good to check out, good to know.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And so, but I was I was completely naive. Uh, you know, when I bought the two uh longhorns, um you know, Pam named them because they weren't registered. Uh you know, in today's environment, they had baby horns. I mean, they they measured maybe 40 inches at the time, tip to tip. Uh and uh so that was that's how we got started. And then we went from from that uh and we we kept one of them. Um uh one ended up uh getting sold, but the the one of the cows ended up being living here for its entire life. Um but it it was at that point in time, and it was going through uh a series of progressions, but starting with unregistered and then going to registered, uh, and then I was just uh completely upgrading the the herd, uh, it seemed like uh every two to three years, like selling those off because it just didn't make sense. Uh and I went, I we ended up going to a seminar. Uh, if you remember, uh Dr. Bob Krop, um he was uh a professor up at Oklahoma State University, and he put on a seminar, and it was really helpful. I think it was at that point in time where uh he really it made sense to me uh where he shared that you you really have to have a plan. You need to come up with a plan that is uh good for you and and where you want to go with your longhorns. And so as a result, like I say, I sold them off. And and at one point in time we got up to like 250 head.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

So what years was this? Like uh do you remember around the time that you went to the seminar by Dr. Krapp?

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah, I think uh it was put on um in, I want to say somewhere around uh 1998.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

So tell me a little bit about, you know, you went to his seminar and you know, the industry, or everyone refers to it as the industry, but you know, kind of the movers and shakers in the business and the events that there were. Tell me what the industry looked like back then.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Um you know, it it was it was interesting. There were everybody's very friendly. Uh, you know, and that was one of the things. It was always it seemed like it was always the Longhorn Industry was uh a very good community, and everybody was uh trying to uh learn and gain knowledge uh along the way. And we had, you know, there's a variety of different breeders. Uh that's when cloning was uh just got started in its infancy, and shortly after that, embryo transfers. Um there were a lot of different players um that were in there uh back in the day, you know, some that were very knowledgeable, like Mike Bowman, um and of course Bob Loomis, but you had other players um like uh Ron Marques uh and Rex Mosser uh who had just gotten into the breed as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

What did the animals look like? So the animals that you were seeing at the sales or maybe in the show ring, I know there weren't as many fraturities nearly as uh you know back then. What did what was kind of your typical or your you know your your longhorn that everyone was going after?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

You know, there wasn't um I would say Molly, there there really wasn't a particular longhorn like there is like like there is right now that was super popular. Um you know, there was CP boomerang uh was a very popular bull, but there were a lot of different different uh bulls and and were popular. At that point in time, um, like I say, there were certain breeders, uh, just like I mentioned, Rex, and Rex was um he was he was a very uh he was very interesting, very colorful. There were so many colorful uh people in the breed uh that have made it it made it a lot very exciting, and and Rex was always um keen on on wanting to buy uh uh the highest priced uh at the at the different sales, at the different auctions. Um, and and but there wasn't there wasn't uh like there is uh right now, it was it was a little bit different. There were a lot of different players there that were going down different paths.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

You know, one thing I remember about Rex, we're kind of going down memory lane here, but he had, did he he called a part of his herd? Was it Vicky's menagerie? Is that what he's kind of called? His really long-horned animals. So you know, kind of a theme there. You started because of your wife, Rex started because of his.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

That's right. That's right. And and and Rex was so colorful. You know, he had his his uh his coach's uh gym shorts on at the sales. So you know, it it there were so so many different uh eclectic and and interesting um members of the Longhorn Association back then.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Well, what would you say, you know, with so many cattle breeds out there, you know, obviously you started because of your wife's ties to the university, but what is it about Texas Longhorns that's kept you committed to them for what almost is it has it been 30 years or more?

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Oh yeah, absolutely. Um I I think it's it's it's really uh I can I can sum it up they you know in one simple, easy phrase is that they're they're so easy. They are easy to take care of, they're easy to manage, um you know, they're uh very call, they're very um curious. Uh and they they've just got great dispositions.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

How do you feel like your appreciation for the breed has changed over time?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Uh well it it definitely has gosh, Molly, it's been uh you know, as especially I will uh share with you, you know, having started up um you know a federally inspected uh meat processing facility over the last three, four years and getting a chance to uh meet face-to-face other cattle breeds, it's just it just solidifies my appreciation for the longhorns that they're just so easy to work with. You know, even if they have you know hundred-inch horns, they are just very docile, great dispositions, and uh as as Eddie would say would say they're easy keepers.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

There you go. So let's jump back back to today. Um, how would you describe your breeding philosophy?

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Um you know, I I think um my philosophy is as we talked about, they've got a good disposition. I think that's gotta be key. Okay. And and I you want them to be, I want them to be colorful, um and and have that potential uh to get up to uh 90 to 100 inches or more. Uh but you know it's it's having been in this breed for such a long time, um, you know, they are consistently inconsistent. And I think that's one of the things that is really important for everybody to understand. So I I think that that's that's where uh you know, long term, that's where my focus is.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

How would you say that your eye for cattle has changed with the experience that you've gained?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Um you know, I think you know, you get uh I think I get smarter from the standpoint of, you know, I can look and I can look at uh different pedigrees and and then um you know taking a look at the pedigrees, a lot of times I'll look at the uh owner or the breeder um and and get a sense for for their background or their experience. Um and then just see see how they whether whether I'm at somebody's ranch or I'm at a sale, just see how they they uh act or react around uh around people.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

What do you feel like are some things you notice in cattle now that you maybe didn't notice early on when you were kind of switching your herd over every few years?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah. Yeah, there there are certain cows or bloodlines that uh people are following a little bit too much um or focusing on as opposed to really looking at um and and the nice thing is um you know with hired hand is you can go to you can go to the hired hand websites and you can look and you can see, you know, the you can look at their pedigree, you look at you look at their ancestry, you can look at their offspring. Uh there's so much more information that's available uh so for you to make a better decision. And that's one of the things that I guess um, having been in this industry for a long time, is is that you can kind of look and you can see, and you and you realize that there's there's always going to be um, as opposed to just focusing on on a popular breed or a specific um animal or bull, uh is there's always gonna be sleepers, okay? Because as I mentioned, you know they're they're they're consistently inconsistent. So even the most popular uh animals that are out there uh today, all of their offspring are not gonna be as good as or better uh than they are. And I think that's one of the things you need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

I think that's a great point. Um I just interviewed a guest a few weeks ago, and we he was kind of alluding to the fact that he thought that there were maybe some patterns among birth order, you know. So that that first calf crop might be, you know, just all bangers, you know, top of the class, you know, outstanding. But then, you know, the next year you might get something totally different. And we were we kind of went down that rabbit hole. So it's interesting to hear you kind of parody that as well.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, and and like I say, they are so inconsistent. I mean, I've had some some really um um strong uh popular bulls in in our herd. And you know, it the nice thing is I I'll track all all their um data points, if you will, or my data points uh to look and see. And like I say, they are as inconsistent as they can be.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

What are the data points that you track?

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Well a lot of things that that that that I do differently is you know, I'm I'm wanting to make sure um you know that that the bulls are are are prolific and that they can cover the the uh cows quickly, uh easily. I think that's one of the things that's really important for me uh to also be able to look and see um you know what clicks and what doesn't click uh you know in terms of the the the uh sire as well as the dam. And and so I'm I'm sort of tracking that, I'm tracking the the uh colors, I'm tracking the the length of horns, um, you know, all the different things, and and just even like I say, uh to ensure that the the disposition we've got um one of the things that we do here differently is is that when we when we uh are weaning our our heifers or or even uh potential uh herd sires, um you know you know, we put them in uh what Pam's called her charm school. And so it it is they have to graduate from charm school to um remain uh on Red Peak Ranch. And so there's there's a lot of things that go into uh making sure that that they that they meet what Pam and I what what our requirements are.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

I love that. Do you have a sign for the barn or anything for their own?

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Actually, for the pasture.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Well, getting back on track here a little bit, um, where to our to our list of questions, what are some uh common mistakes that you have seen new breeders make, or what advice would you give them, or maybe your earlier self?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah, I think I think one of the things is is that I I I see um just going back to uh what I answered kind of previously, a little overconfidence in certain bloodlines. Uh again, realizing that in the Longhorn breed, there's there's no uh there's no surefire way that that that you're gonna have successful cows, that you're gonna raise successful cows because they are very inconsistent. And I think there is a little bit of overconfidence uh when I'm at some of the sales, um, and there are certain uh popular breeds there that that people they get carried away and uh and then for that reason they they overpay uh and they get disillusioned. So the thing that I would recommend to to really new breeders is that go in and be thorough, but pick the ones that you like, not the ones that are the most popular. Um and get comfortable with those could be because it's so easy to get uh disillusioned uh a lot of times when you go when you're going to some of these sales and you have popular breeds of of cows or heifers that are that are being sold, and um you know the excitement of the sales um may cause you to have regrets later on. You know, cognitive dissonance is is a marketing term uh because you know you've got you have buyer's remorse.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Well, we're definitely going to talk about marketing and and your background and that coming up here. But I have one last question uh before we kind of skip over the cattle. Uh, what does your typical day look like for you working with your cattle today?

SPEAKER_02 19:54

You know, uh that was an interesting question that you had because it's it's you know, the best example I can give you, I mean, that they like I say, I go back to they're so easy, Molly. Um, you know, uh at our ranch, we entertain a lot, and we br have a lot of people come uh to to uh Red Peak Ranch. And and uh one of the big uh attractions uh besides you know the the geographics here we're on the northern edge of the hill country uh where it's very scenic and a lot of ridges, but that people are just drawn to how uh amazing the longhorns are. So when we have visitors that are coming uh to the ranch to to enjoy it, they they they just get amazed that they get to be up close and personal on some you know 90 to 100 inch longhorns. And um I treat them uh you know, I've trained uh the longhorns so that we'll have little roundups and I'll put uh I'll put visitors on um four-wheelers uh to do a small little cattle drive, you know, where I'll uh I don't know, make something up, we have to give somebody some shots, or uh, or we have to worm them, or we have to do some little you know, come up with some sort of uh interesting thing so that they hold on to it, that they cherish it as a as a memory. Uh, but the reality is that just uh just last week, um prior to this this snowstorm that we had down here, you know, I had uh, you know, I've got a herd of uh gee, I think there's about 70. And you know, I just open, I just honk them, I open up a gate, and I'm moving them because I I do a lot of rotational grazing. I just opened it up uh and you know, they followed me just like uh people's dogs who just follow me right behind me, and I took them down to a to a another pasture, opened that gate, and they walked right in. So that's how that's how Uh yeah, what when I say uh they're easy, they're that easy.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

I feel like you just gave away one of your trade secrets for the next time you have visitors and they think they're uh they think they're helping you. Well, let's talk a little bit about your your marketing background. It's one thing that definitely I feel like sets you apart. Um you own a successful agency, uh, which gave you a very uh different perspective early on. Uh, how did your marketing background influence how you approached the ranch from the very beginning?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Um well, one of the things, uh and that I think that was really that's a really good question because you know the the thing that I I wanted to make sure of, whether it's the logo that that the uh Red Peak Ranch has or uh the domain names, you know, that that it would live on, you know. So the whole thing is is as opposed to having something, I don't know, a little catchy, um that that people will use, um, you know, that you'll see on the names on the backs of uh boats. I I live on a lake, and so when when uh people name their boats, you know, some of them are just like you scratch your head and go, I don't know about that. And and the same thing is true uh when you when you establish uh you know what you want your your website, your domain uh to be, what you want your logo to look like, you know, you want it to sustain itself and to uh be um recognizable and and eye-catching. And so that's one of the things that as a mareteer, uh, you know, that that we're always uh counseling our clients on um so that they don't get into what's trendy today. Um it's kind of like uh I've seen this so many times um on the on the business side of things, it's kind of uh I use analogies, kind of like fishing on a on a on a party boat, you know, that all of a sudden they're catching him over on this side, so everybody runs over to the to that side of the boat because that's the popular side. And then somebody catches one over here and they all run over to the other side. And so I think that the thing is that you really want it to be thought out and you want to want it to see what makes sense to you. And that and the thing is it it's really influenced uh every Red Peak Ranch how we sell our longhorns. Because I would much rather sell uh and and that's where my focus has been, is to have people come to the website and and to go online, because then I can I can really ask them questions um to make sure that we match them up with the with the longhorns that they're gonna they're gonna enjoy and that are gonna be successful in in their program. Um and I think that's one of the things that's that's really driven us. Um not taking anything away from sales. Uh I like to buy at the sales, but I I'm I'm not as fond of selling my longhorns uh at the at the auctions.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Which came first, your logo or your two longhorns that you purchased for PM's birthday?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Uh I would say the two longhorns came first.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Okay. Interesting because one of the things I like, I really like about your logo is that it doesn't have a longhorn in it. And I know that sounds funny, but so many, you know, we work on so many logos even in the office here that, you know, it's really important to folks to have that branding in it, which I totally understand. Um, but I think part of the strength of yours over the years, you know, has been just that it's a strong logo. You know, you don't have to, you don't have to have a horn in it, or that, you know, you didn't try to turn the tail of the R into a horn, you know, anything like that. Um, so I've just always been curious which came first.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

So yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks. Uh it was it was one of those things that I just uh, you know, in working with um, you know, the the uh creative team at at uh our agency, uh it just made sense. And and that was a lot of is a lot of things that we've done um you know that kind of reflect that. And so that's it's it makes it I think the the the thing about uh our logo was to make it look uh fun and interesting. So uh that was the purpose of Red Peak Ranch in the in the first place, is that it be a lot of fun. Uh and and so that hopefully that that that logo reflects the experience that you would have when you come to Red Peak.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Well, tell everyone what your domain name is so we can all be jealous.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

It's uh Texaslonghornbreeder.com.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

So you were very early, obviously, to recognize the importance of strong domain names. Why did that matter to you? What you know, what did you know that you know no one else knew at the time and and you know can attribute to your your marketing agency and your knowledge?

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Well, again, I think one of the things that uh and um we're gonna play into that. I mean, you know, when you start looking at at the websites and you wanted to see what what is easy that you can get right off the tip of your tongue, uh that that you could establish that. And and the Molly, the other thing is that we like I say, I learned early on that uh I I thoroughly enjoy selling longhorns, but I like to sell them individually uh to individuals that that you can kind of match up, uh, like I say, what their interests were, what their what their what's their attractions. Um as you know, the last thing that I mean, you know, the the the longhorns, every longhorn has its own personality. And so I think that's the the thing I like to do um with with uh new buyers, especially, you know, if I've sold to a lot of first-time buyers, and I want to make sure that that I'm selling um a longhorn where their personality kind of matches up uh with who the buyers are.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

What advice would you give to breeders today about choosing a good domain name or if they're deciding on a brand or a logo? I feel like all three of those things probably have similar advice.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah, and I think uh that's what that's where you really want to look at it. Uh you know, Molly, I think I think you really want to determine, and and uh that's what's really hard for people because I think they just they they jump on something very quickly. And I think you wanna you want to really look at it and say, you know, what is your intent? What are you trying to uh achieve? And um if you if you do those things in it, it could have easily been, you know, you see this a lot, Mike and Pam's ranch. You know, I think that you you you you really want to think things through as opposed to them just fly by the seat of your pants because it'll bite you. And and even though uh, you know, when when we started into the longhorn business, I mean, gosh, it it clearly was uh a hobby. I mean, when I bought the two for Pam, I never imagined that it we would ever have uh at one point in time 250 longhorns. Um I go back to I go back to Dr. Bob Crop. You know, you gotta have a plan. And and and that's where uh it really made sense, like I say, starting with the logo, starting with the name of your ranch, starting uh, and then having it progress. And that's the same thing that we've that we've done in all the different websites that we have, whether it be um Red Peak Ranch or um uh eathealthybeef.org, which is Chisholm Trail Grass-Fed Beef, or Local Cuts Meat Company. Um, it's it's a really well thought out um program to position so that it isn't a short-term trendy kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Well, and I feel like kind of the underlying theme of your answers to you keep tying everything back to how you you like to get to know the people who are purchasing from you and make sure it's a good match. So I would imagine you're you're with your marketing hat on back then, you also kind of set out some value propositions for yourselves or you know, some some goals or I don't know if goals is the right word, but you know, pillars that you've stuck to over the years. And it sounds like that hasn't changed either, which I think a lot of folks fast forward past that as well, right? They they're in such a hurry to to start their their matings or their pairings or get their first few that they kind of forget why they wanted to start in the first place, what they wanted to stand for.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Right. They get excited and and and I again, you know, the the thing that's that I've realized is that you know, it is just like the Longhorn business is like going to Las Vegas. And and even more so uh when when people are buying uh young uh you know two, three-year-old heifers. Uh, they're the you know, the life of these animals, they live up to 25 years of age. And I know this because I've personally experienced it. And and guess what? You know, they're gonna change over time. And some are gonna be really successful. And a lot of those longhorns that looked like they had the potential, it didn't happen. And so I you know, I think that that you know, that's the that's the biggest problem I I think that that the longhorn industry faces is is we have to realize that they they are consistently inconsistent. Because you know, they they I see this a lot of times, uh, and you see this in um you know at the sales, and they'll they'll talk about the the sister of this sister had you know 100-inch horns. Okay, and that doesn't mean this particular animal that's in the ring, okay, in the sale program, is gonna have is gonna look like her sister. I mean, we know this. I mean, you can we can look at uh Brad Pitt's brother or or or look at look at Shaquille O'Neal. I mean, his father is is you know, I think he's like five, eight. I mean, you know, that's where you you know the the thing you have to realize is is that there's no there's no good, there's not gonna be a solid, I've got an inside line that this this particular cow is gonna be successful or this particular bull is gonna be successful because they they will always surprise you.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

One more marketing question here before we move on. I feel like you segued really good into the the beef and the processing, but I have one more question I want to ask first. Yeah, sure. Um so you know, you and I have known each other for a long time, and at some point, I don't remember exactly when, at some point you finally transitioned your marketing agency website uh to hired hand. You know, you uh, you know, we we would have a lot of conversations, and you know, um you had an agency in-house that did a great job. Um so I'm just curious if you can share with our listeners what kind of finally drove that decision to switch over to a hired hand site.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Actually, uh Molly, it was a no-brainer. I mean, you know, we were doing it. We we we started out because we were in the infancy, but one of the things that I realized right on is that hired hand, you guys are were were so committed. And talk about you know being uh you know, looking down the future. I mean, I I can still remember you and Jamie, and and uh and I there may have been a couple of other people in the background, but I didn't think there were at that point in time when I first got to to meet with you. And how you guys have really you you were committed, you stayed committed, and it was uh it was so easy for me to it was no brainer to switch over and let hired hand completely, you know, you handle our website, and it's been terrific. And I will tell you this, it's it's worth uh to me, uh, you know, my uh annual, I don't know, you call it renewal or subscription, um uh that's the easiest check to write every year, Molly. I mean it it really truly is because you know it it really's so good uh in how you know you can access it. I mean, I'm constantly on the website um you know making additions, uh making changes, making ads and applying that, um, you know, adding different photos or or um registering uh the new uh heifer calves uh from the the this particular uh season. And I will tell you it's it is really nice because it's so easy to to get in uh and to make those types of uh moves, ads, and changes, if you will. And and uh uh have worked with hired hand all these years, it's it's a delight.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Well that's great. That's great to hear. Um I think being, you know, with both of us being in marketing, one thing we're used to is uh we have different software for different things, right? So for social media, we might use one software, for search engine optimization, we might use another, for podcast editing, we use another. Um, what does what do you think, or how important do you think having a livestock specific platform for your website and for other breeders' websites is over those folks who say, well, you know, I can go do this in GoDaddy for cheaper, or you know, I can I can do this on my own.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

It's it's not even a fair fight, Molly. I mean, hired hand, gosh, you know, uh I was just chuckling because you know to to have GoDaddy handle it, no way. There's just it's just no way. I mean, it's it's it's not even a fair fight. I mean, hired hand, you guys are are so knowledgeable. And if there's any changes, if I've if I've had any any issues, uh which you know on occasion may, I mean, in a very, very blue moon, and then I can always reach out, and you guys can give me uh tech support to uh on a particular animal that um maybe wasn't uh part um, yeah, they weren't on a website uh that I picked up at a sale or something like that, and I'd uh wanted to add them, and there was uh uh some some sort of glitch that's attached. But gosh, you guys are just you're terrific.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Well, thank you. Uh let's get into what I know our listeners are going to uh, you know, really want to soak up this knowledge uh that they're about to hear. So you we've we've alluded a few times that you are very knowledgeable in longhorn beef processing, marketing. Um so to you, you know, longhorns isn't just about raising it, but you wanted to solve some of the problems around processing and marketing. What challenges do you breeders face when it comes to processing, especially with horned cattle? And then we'll get into a little bit about the solutions you've provided.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Okay. Um, the the the biggest challenge is is you have to realize um that the the longhorn beef it's it's very, very healthy. I actually uh have had all the uh cuts tested by a third-party lab, and they're just off the charts from that standpoint. But but the the challenge that you have with uh the processing uh industry, if you will, okay, um, that it is so focused for um meat cattle and and has not been for uh uh longhorn cattle. So the the challenge that you face is uh with the processors, they want to do it their way, and it's one way. And it typically has to do with uh non-horned cows, okay? And they think that um dealing with horned cows and and all the the rumors uh in the cattle uh industry, you know, that they're they're mean, they're hard to work with, all of those things are just ridiculous. But it but the thing you have to realize is that typically your longhorn cattle are gonna be they're they're leaner, okay. Uh they're not like your big fat rolly poly uh beef cows. And they don't they don't act that way either. And the the a lot of your big beef cows uh and processing facilities, you know, they got they've got cattle prods, and they do even have you you could just go to your local sale barn and you look at the beef cattle in there, and you're gonna have the handlers in there, and they're gonna be, they're gonna have cattle prods. Okay. And all that does is that'll the you know, unbeknownst to the processing facility, it creates it it provides a lot of stress. Uh and and you know, it it makes it very difficult. You start putting a cattle prod on a longhorn, and it's it's a whole different deal.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

How difficult do you feel like it is to find processors willing or able to handle longhorns? Because I know that's a question we get asked so frequently from, especially from newer breeders who want to, you know, just be able to process a few head for themselves, not even, you know, to have a beef operation at farmers markets or whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah. I I would say, I would say it's pretty it's gonna be pretty challenging. It's you know, you're gonna have to go and talk to uh uh the processing facil facilities near you. Um, you know, and they're and they're they're truly you're gonna have to the cuts have to be made differently on longhorn cattle than they they can on on your regular beef cows. And that's that's gonna be a built big challenge. I will just say um, you know, that at Local Cuts Meat Cup Company, I mean we're a federally processed meat processing facility. Um the the reason why I started uh because all these things that you just mentioned is that they they wanted to do it their way uh and not my way. Okay. Uh they didn't know how to handle longhorns, and many times the animals would get stuck. I even had with some of our our the processing facilities that I worked where we lost cows, you know, they they died because they they got stressed so much, uh and that was extremely scary, um, you know, as a breeder. Um and and uh you know the thing is that a local cuts, I mean we've had some of the longhorn breeders. I know that we process uh we process more uh longhorn cattle than any other processing facility in the United States. Um, and that's because we really set up the our pens to be able to handle that. But but and we've gotten some breeders all the way from uh Connecticut that have brought their cattle in because it's so easy to to get them in and and to cut them the way to get your cuts the way you want to have them, as opposed to the way uh that processing filth. Facility knows how to cut them.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Where is your processing plant located? Just for our listeners who haven't had a chance to Google it yet.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah, it's it's actually located in a small, small town called Zephyr, Texas. And if you look at at if you put your finger on where you think the middle of Texas is, that's where it is. Um so it's it's uh centrally located in Texas. And it's just set up where we've got you know large pens that are set up so that if you need to bring them in, you know, two or three days ahead of time, they can they can uh be brought in and so that they're not they're not put in a stressful situation and uh they can be fed so that they can you know they can get comfortable with their surroundings. The thing is, is that the way the that we have our our facility set up so that it we've had, gosh, I can't tell you, Molly, we've probably had uh the longest horned long horn has probably been 115 inches tip to tip so far. Uh maybe even longer than that, uh, that we've that we've had our facility. And of course all sizes in between.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

I forget the exact term you used just a few minutes ago. You said you're that the plant is federally, what was the word?

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Uh federally inspected.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Federally inspected. So talk to me about kind of why that is important for folks that may not know. And then is that connected or tied to like the USDA approval as well?

SPEAKER_02 47:12

It is. It is. So um we have a uh USDA federal inspector uh at our facility uh during all hours of operations. And and so uh the processes that you have to go by to be a federally inspected facility are very rigorous. And and but it really ensures um you know the the safety of the meat uh no matter you know where it's shipped uh throughout the United States or you know throughout the world. So it's it's a just a um a rigorous process that that all uh cattle at at local cuts meat company go through.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

That's also important for uh breeders who would bring their animals there because it can be really hard to obtain that USDA seal at like your local locker uh if you want to go out and sell your own branded beef, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Absolutely. And and and here's the other thing is is that uh you know, I know a lot of people will will um you know position the the meat and selling it as as longhorn beef. Um you know the success that I've experienced is I sell it as grass-fed beef. It's uh again, from a marketing standpoint, just uh you know what we talked about before is you know, you don't have to educate them. The the marketplace has been educated on what grass-fed is, so you don't have to re-educate them or you don't have to be uh going through that education process about longhorn uh beef. Uh so you know how I how I always talk to consumers, I talk to them about grass-fed beef. Okay. And and and then I can show them the the uh the nutritional facts um on the different cuts so that they can see just how healthy it is. I mean, not only is it healthy, but gosh, you know, the thing that that I will tell you is is that um, you know, uh the tenderloins from from uh longhorn cattle are just amazing. Um but it's important in how they're they're caught, so that, you know, like with with longhorn cattle, the we will we will cut them into fillets, they'll be butterfied. I especially like to have them bacon wrapped, uh, and we use uh very high premium bacon to to wrap them so that these they taste as good as a filet would taste in a five-star restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

So I feel like a lot of the things that you've mentioned, there had to have been quite a learning curve for, right? So your your time in Longhorns has probably taught you a lot of this. From the time you and Pam decided that this was something you wanted to open or you know, create till when it actually you opened your doors and could start accepting cattle, how long of a process was that?

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Oh, gosh. You know, it it was kind of interesting, uh, Molly. Um with the advertising agency, uh, we'd just been acquired uh, let's see, back in 2018. And um I had been uh, I guess you could say, as uh my one of my side gigs was uh was selling uh the Longhorn Beef as grass-fed beef. And we sell uh and it's under a brand we call Chisholm Trail, uh which again, you know, has some history to it. So um, you know, the it it's it's very recognizable. You know, the website that we have is eathealthybeef.org. Um, but what what what we did is is that it I was working with other processing facilities, and it, like I say, it was very challenging uh because there was only one way, it was their way. I recognized that the you know you have to cut the longhorns, the meat needs to be cut differently, and I learned that through uh personal experience. And and um one of the things that ended up happening with COVID, okay, the the demand for uh uh meat took off. And you know, I was just one of those, I'm just one of those entrepreneurs that just said, um, gosh, why don't I just go and build a brand new facility? Uh and I I think it I I know it will help the Longhorn industry, okay, and it'll be something that I can do. And uh because you weren't busy enough. I wasn't busy enough, you know. I just have this entrepreneurial spirit, and it it just worked out really well. And uh, you know, we've gotten it up where you know we do uh I've got 40 employees there, and and uh of course we handle all kinds of uh uh cattle breeds, but but one of the things that we've even done is is that again, paying attention, uh, and I think that's one of the key things, you gotta keep your fingertips on what the pulse is occurring in the marketplace. But we've we've uh at local cuts, we've acquired new technology uh there to uh even make the the to uh accelerate the aging process, realize that with the with the the longhorn cattle that are being processed, you don't process, you know, you don't hang them. You know, they always talk about hanging, you don't hang them as long. Um, you know, like I say, we've got we've we've got some very um state-of-the-art uh technology equipment that we use to to make the the meat more tender and more flavorful. And and um you know, I've got some very experienced um butchers, meat cutters that are on staff uh that really uh know how to give you, provide any kind of exotic cut that you would want to have down to uh the most basic, but how to cut the the the longhorn meat differently. And we've got uh a lot of uh longhorn members that are bringing their their uh beef there. But I would say back to to your point that that you mentioned is that the the thing that you have to realize in this in this breed, um you you can't keep them all. And some of them are just not going to end up like you had hoped they were gonna end up. And so uh you have to have that understanding and realize that that you know, what do I do with them? Okay, and I would say to anybody first, take one in, have it processed, and try it yourself, okay? And and get a really understanding of of you know what you want to do. Okay, like I say, um we have we have other other uh producers, longhorn producers that that feed out their longhorns, okay, and uh so that they're grain fed. It it takes a little bit longer, but um the meat is is like I say very flavorful and and very tender. But it it really depends on uh what you want to do, but try it first uh so you get a better understanding.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Where would you tell breeders who want to start? What what would your advice be? Like obviously you you just gave some great advice of you know, thinking through things, trying one at first, but beyond that, you know, if they if they want to have a plan in place for selling beef, what would your advice be?

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Um my my advice would be um what do you what do you want to do? Um I again, um there are there's so many different sales strategies that you can have uh with longhorns. I've seen this, you know, that you know you can you can sell to you can sell to restaurants, you can sell to restaurants, retail outlets, um, you know, sell it wholesale, you can sell direct to consumer. You mentioned you could you could take it and sell it at farmers markets. It really depends on what what you as an individual, where do you want to put your time and effort? Okay. Um and what what may be um you know that you may not be as interested as you yeah, there's a lot of people that I don't want to spend the time going to a farmer's market. Okay, that's fine. Then what may drive you is is to selling selling direct to consumer or selling into uh retailers and and and to restaurants. So again, you've got to determine where do you want to spend your time and effort. And I can tell you uh, you know, the it it is, I'll go back to my original statement, the original question that you asked. It is so easy if you if you look at at where do you want to spend your time and and where do you want to focus your time and efforts on. And for me, as an example, um, you know, the the reason and I wrote and I realized is that I had to come up with I had to taste the meat first. Okay. I had to that had to be a little bit of a challenge because, you know, uh my wife Pam, again, uh you know, it the longhorns are very sacred. Oh my god, you can't eat those. Uh and but now it it's it's they're so healthy um and so good for you, and they taste so good. And and like I say, my strategy was was I didn't want to go to I didn't want to have my effort being focused on uh going and and selling direct to consumers or selling at farmers markets or or anything like that, but I wanted to sell it to to retailers and to restaurants. And so that's where I marketed and spent my efforts. And um so now, you know, it's it's just making it's making deliveries. So you're not, you know, that's the biggest time that's being spent is is uh delivering that. And and um so it it appeals to me, okay? Uh as opposed to spending my time uh on weekends, I'd rather spend them with the longhorns taking out uh uh people and having them, you know, get up close and personal with the longhorns, uh and and then uh realizing that I I you know you you always have to have a place with the longhorns because all of them aren't gonna be winners. They can't all be winners. Okay. And and and that's that's what I would say that part of your plan needs to be is you gotta have a strategy is that those you where's my cut gonna be? And if they don't make the cut, where do I want them to go? You know, either you you take them to uh places like Chisholm Trail or you set up your own program uh that appeals to how you know you want to spend your time and effort. Okay. So I don't know if that answers your question or not.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

It does. You actually answered very long-winded. No, it was great. It was great. Is there anything before we switch gears and talk about a different topic? Is there anything I haven't asked you about Longhorn Lean Beef or the processing or anything that you think our listeners would want to hear?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Um I I would say, you know, especially with if if you're thinking about it, don't hesitate, give me a call. I mean, I'm I'm I I really truly want to help people in the Longhorn breed be uh successful, um no matter what, whether it's with the registered uh animals or if it's with um you know uh uh some sort of a beef program. Um you know, so so I want them to be successful, and and you know, uh that's where I would say if if they do have questions, you know, I can I can get uh even more specific with them on on what to do and how to do it. But but I I I go back and like I say, uh uh and I uh brought this up, Bob Crop uh was so influential to me uh that it it really helped me in my decision making about longhorns uh happen through the years.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Outside of cattle, you and Pam are big into CrossFit. So let's talk a little bit about how that mindset carries over. So what has CrossFit taught you that applies directly to ranching?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

When you asked that question, I thought it was really I thought it was a very interesting question. Because in in CrossFit, it's it's a community, okay? Uh, you know, and you know, the the thing about CrossFit that I think is really important is you know it's it's a journey and and the same thing uh you you you you've got to be you're surrounded, you know, they say misery loves company. And I mean, you know, you you it it is challenging because you know CrossFit is is it's not for everyone. Um uh it is for me and Pam. And but it's but it's a community. And the same thing is true in the long horn industry. It's a community. Uh, but the the thing that uh there's so many similarities. If you look at longhorns, I've never seen a super fat longhorn in my life, okay? And and and they're fit, and and so it it's just appeals to Pam and I say, you know, we've got we've got fit cattle, we've got to stay fit ourselves, okay. Uh you you like I say, it's a it's a journey. You can't just get fit and there you are, okay. You have to you have to continue down that path. And that's and it's being consistent and you know being dependable. And the same thing is true with the loan horn. If you're consistent, okay, in your plan and in your practices, you you can be very successful, okay? Those that that are short-term, like I say, they're gonna that they go in, and you've seen this many times, Molly, is they go to a sale, and it you know, there's a very popular uh uh young two-year-old heifer that is sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, okay. Uh, and they get disillusioned and they get out. Okay. And and I will say you, there's so many similarities, like I say, with CrossFit. You stay the course, you've got to grind it out. And I would say the same thing is true, uh, you know, in the longhorn industry, if you've you you you you know establish what your plan is and and and just keep on going forward, press forward. You're not always gonna get a winner. You're gonna have to, you it goes through trial and error. Like I say, I've you know, over the years, you know, I've sold off, and I said, that didn't work. Okay. And so I had to uh start over and and build on on top of that, and and go out and and you know, you get a you you said, well, that bull didn't really click and do what I was hoping because I was all I wanting all Shaquille O'Neals, and and I got you know just standard size, normal run-of-the-mill loan words. So the the whole thing is is that you've got to you've got to you've got to press forward, you've got to be consistent, you you gotta keep marching forward. And I think that's that's the same thing with with CrossFit. And guess what? CrossFit it's so plays so well because the the longhorn beef is so healthy for you, okay, that you can you can even eat it every day. It's healthier than uh almost all cuts except except fish, okay? I mean it's it's it's so healthy for you. And and that's where uh you know there's there's a lot of uh similarities between CrossFit and the Longhorns.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

I feel like another parallel might be immediate results, right? You can't go to one CrossFit class and see, you know, you're not gonna have bulging biceps after one class, just like with longhorns. You you might not hit a home run on your very first uh you know pairing or purchase.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Very true. And and it's so true. I mean, it's that that's the that's the reality. But and and and that's where I think it needs to be. We need to help the industry realizing that you're they all aren't gonna be winners. You know, the the next cow, you you they have the potential, okay, but they're not all gonna be the the winners that you would hope for. So you can't buy into the to to the wholesales pitch, okay. I mean, we've we've been to so many different sales where they that they think this is this is a proven winner that there is there is just no such thing as a proven w winner in the longhorn industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

It's good marketing language, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

Yeah, that's true. Very good marketing language.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Well, you and Pam also love to travel. How does getting away impact how you think about the ranch?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Oh, it's it's it's uh it's terrific. As a matter of fact, um the one of the trips we did last summer, uh we went to we went to Spain, okay, uh, and I ran with the Bulls. Uh and it was it was such a great experience. Uh and you know, uh it was it was a lot of fun. Uh so a lot of things like that that that take place, uh, you know, again, in that particular case, uh you're trying to make sure that you don't get the horn. Okay. But but uh, you know, having been around. uh uh longhorns which it was so exciting too because being uh it's over in the uh northeast corner of of Spain and of course that's where the Longhorns originated uh was from um you know Spain and Portugal so uh it was it was fascinating to see uh the ancestry and and you could really see it and understand uh where the horn breed has moved in different uh areas and in different parts of the country uh from the fighting bulls in in Spain to your very docile uh Texas longhorns okay so that was that was where you know we've we've done uh a lot of different trips like that um you know whether it be to um to run with the bulls or um to uh the Galapagos I mean that was a uh that was a terrific experience again uh just seeing what uh you know if you if you look at the different animals in the different breeds and you look at at you know the the Texas longhorns and and how um you know how the different animals have migrated or I wouldn't say migrated or uh mutated to to different areas so it's it's it's fascinating to see uh and to recognize that when you're at in different parts of the country or the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

That's very cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

Yeah. Well what do you hope that the future looks like for Texas Longhorns as a breed uh you know I I uh I would I would like to see uh the community kind of get together and realize um you know I I there's a lot of there's there's been a lot of conflict that has has occurred okay and um I I think that if if you look and see what can we do to um promote this breed to make it more successful I mean the the thing is is that I think that there's there's a lot of opportunities to to market and and bring um first time uh breeders new uh longhorn breeders in uh but I I think there needs to be a little bit more education and it's not it's it it should never be about dollars and cents and and I think that um some of the things that have occurred um in this industry is people have jumped into it thinking that it's a dollars and cents uh business and it's it's not it's it's about uh enjoying the breed and and enjoying these these fine uh majestic animals and appreciate them enjoy them um experience them for me it was never about whether I can make any money at this or not it it was really about the the experience of being around these these majestic animals uh and to to be able to share that and to share that experience i i molly I can't tell you as a result of that I have had so many people that that have come out to to Red Peak Ranch and this is uh you know many many people that I've that that have come here and that and and we're and I take them out and and get them to to uh be up close and personal with with the Longhorns and they have gone on to buy a ranch to buy Longhorn cattle they they have enjoyed that experience and I think that's what it's all about is it's it's enjoying the experience you know we're we're only here for a short period of time we've got to enjoy the ride and I I would say that that you know one of the the big enjoyments that that Pam and I get is is coming out to Red Peak Ranch and going out whether it be going to charm school sitting down with the with the young little uh heifer calves and getting them to be as uh friendly and um used to being around people uh as it is to bringing them out with with uh the longhorn cattles that you know we have some that are over 100 inches tip to tip and they come right up to you and you can they'll eat right out of your hand.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

It's that kind of experience that makes it makes it memorable to everybody and that's where um that's what it should be all about I think that's great insight Mike uh thank you thank you so much for sharing your experience and your perspective and the lessons you've learned uh along your your many years in breeding I think this was a really valuable conversation and to our listeners thank you for tuning in uh to From the Pasture and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

And thank you Molly