SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi there, I'm Molly. And I'm Jamie. We're the owners of Higher Hand Software.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

And this is season six of our From the Pasture podcast. For more than 15 years, we've been helping breeders promote their pedigree livestock with our easy-to-use, animal management-driven website software.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Each week, we bring you stories from the pasture, breeding philosophies, ranch traditions, cattle knowledge, and conversation with folks using hired hand to power their livestock marketing.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

So settle in for today's episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand. Today's episode is all about intention, a word that may not get used nearly enough in agriculture today. Eretai. It's a Greek word that roughly translates to excellence, virtue, and becoming the very best version of something. And for today's guests, it's not just a word, it's their reading philosophy. We're joined by brothers Luke and Dave Pine of Pine Brothers Longhorns, who's started in 2013 with empty barns, open pastures, and a few curious kids has grown into a thoughtfully built Texas Longhorn program focused on elite cattle, strong partnerships, and long-term vision. Luke and Dave, welcome to our podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

For listeners meeting you for the first time, take us back to the very beginning. So in 2013, as I understand it, you had empty barns, you had underutilized pasture, a lot of young cowboys and cowgirls running around. What made you decide, yeah, we probably need some four-legged critters out here?

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Well, uh I didn't necessarily decide that we needed anything running around out there. My wife and me and my two kids had just purchased our property, I'm gonna say six, seven months prior to that. Um so first time uh since married, we lived in the country and had had any property. And it just happened to have uh pastures and waters and other things because it was set up for uh uh thoroughbred raising in the past. So uh I had no intention of having any four-legged critters. Um Luke uh is the one that decided I should probably have some four-legged critters running around.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

And our our cousin from Ohio, he was um interested in longborns and uh he was coming over our way to look at some. They weren't necessarily for the registered, but just more I just to have out for ornaments, pasture ornaments. And so I went along with him on the ride and checking them out, and I thought, man, these are pretty kind of neat. And then it just happened to be Dave's wife, Kristen's birthday that day. I thought, hey, wouldn't it be fun if we picked up a couple and dropped off in his pasture as like a birthday prank gift or you know, just for fun. And uh he thought that was a great idea. So since Dave wasn't there to vote the opposite direction, we proceeded with uh getting a heifer and a steer just uh for yard ornaments basically, and uh then you came home to that and and we had small children, so that was kind of fun. We we both grew up doing 4-H and had animals around, had a horse and ponies and holsteins and stuff like that, but never to the breeding extent. It was just more for enjoyment of outdoors. So it it it kind of went hand in hand in with what we were accustomed to growing up. So we was ideally just for kids to maybe experience something similar that we did.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

So as I understand it, when I was kind of doing my research um before I interviewed you all, your cousin that that found the longhorn, he kind of was considering it more of an exotic than anything else. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Yeah, he uh, well, if you go back another 15 or 20 years, uh we had some family down in Texas in the uh Canyon Amarillo area. Uh so our uncle, he had a ranch down there, and I he always wanted some longhorns, so he got a couple. Our cousin Nick uh went down and worked for him out of high school for a couple for a year or two, and then once he moved back to Ohio and got married and had kids, um he had a couple of longhorns. He's had, I don't know, he's had about everything from buffalo and pop bellied pigs out there and tumbling pigeons and um gosh, I don't know what llamas, deer, fallow deer, everything. So not a lot of them, but he always liked to have them. So it's kind of kind of went back to to our uncle. I think you even had a couple of steers at one point in the past. Um, but he had a cow and he was bringing it over to a place not too far away to get bread. And uh so Luke rode along with him that day. So that was the um kind of the connection to the Longhorns was yeah, he he likes to have kind of the old McDonald's uh farm, is what I always uh uh explain it as kids and family and people driving the road like to stop and look at fit figure out what he's bought next.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Luke, as I understand it, you were you had just taken over your parents' old place, and so you kind of had the opposite. You you might not have had like the waters and the fencing and the barns, but you definitely had the space for the animals, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Correct. Yep, so that went hand in hand. And then shortly after you had it with the kids, and it's like, oh, well, wouldn't it be cool to have a baby? You know, so then we start looking, hey, if we're gonna get a bowl, then one thing led to another, and um somehow we ended up hooking up with uh Dick Lowe. We ended up getting a bowl from, oh yeah, you want to rent a bowl, and oh yeah, we'll rent it, and then the lease turns into, oh, we're gonna buy one, and then but yeah, either way, that just having the babies and was kind of the next step just for the kids, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

So do you feel like at the beginning maybe the Longhorns found you versus you found the Longhorns?

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Yeah, I think so. I think it was uh yeah, if I was gonna have something in the pasture, it might as well be something kind of cool instead of uh uh you know, black cattle, people don't like it when I say it, but they're they're boring. Um bit, you know, they're to me, to the uneducated, they all look the same. Um and uh so that was uh that didn't interest me. If he dropped off some black cattle or some Holsteins, I'd probably uh maybe raise them, butcher him, and we'd have been done.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

So you mentioned, you know, leasing a bull from Dick Lowe. Um, but then I believe you also decided to go to the Hudson Valentine's sale in Bowling Green shortly after that. Tell me about that and if maybe if maybe that sale kind of flipped your switch from this is fun to this, this might be serious.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Yeah, I think that's what it was. You know, we got the it was probably a year down the road, um, I'm guessing so maybe 2013, 2012 or 13 is when we got the the heifer and the steer. And then um after having them a while, we thought, uh, these might be cool. So we just started googling and researching them and looking for um, you know, we had no no idea that there was uh different kind of segments of the breed, whether it was uh breeding for for beef or breeding for um you know shows or futurities or sales or just to have art in the pasture or what it was. So um the the closest thing we could find was in Bowling Green, which was about five or six hours from us. But the you know, to our knowledge, and anything we could Google or find, that was the closest event to us. So um, you know, that's when we decided, oh well, you know what, let's uh let's make a rope trip this weekend and we'll go uh see what we see. And uh so we we didn't know anybody. Uh we may have known met Gail Beach uh before that because she doesn't live too far away from us. So we may have met her, but um yeah, going down to that sale and and you know, bought our first animal ended up being from uh Bill and Suzanne Torkletsen uh was a heifer that they sold in that sale. And um, but you know, they were very gracious and nice and friendly, and afterwards kept in communication with us and and knew that we uh didn't have a clue about anything.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Um and we seen Anne Marrow to Ching sell at that sale for like 60-some thousand dollars. And when we seen that happen, we were like looking at each other like, whoa, what what's going on here?

SPEAKER_02 8:51

This is cool. Yeah, that'll be part of this, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Yeah, that that was probably the the kicker was uh yeah, if she sold for 66 or 67,000. Um, and uh so yeah, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

So when you went to the sale, did you take a trailer? Like were you anticipating to buy, or did you was it just something?

SPEAKER_03 9:14

I think we did. I I think we did take a trailer. I don't know that it was our own trailer. We probably had to borrow a trailer. And uh yeah, going down there thinking, okay, well, yeah, we'll find something that's registered. And uh and we and we weren't interested in spending very much money. You know, we had uh you know somewhat small budgets and just thought, hey, we're just gonna kind of dip our toe in the water. And uh so that's what we did.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

Yeah, I don't think we knew that there was a possibility of an animal bringing over fifty thousand dollars, which it that just wasn't never registered. We didn't realize it existed. We're just thinking a couple thousand dollar animal, hey, get something a little nicer, and and then when we seen the hey, man, there's some cash towel action going on. It was like, hey, this is fun. This is let's let's try for something like this.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Did you make some good personal connections at the sale? Did you do some networking and meet any other breeders besides the Torquetons?

SPEAKER_03 10:12

I'm sure that we did.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Um I'm sure that's it's possibly how we met Dick Lowe, too, because I think I jumped ahead. We ended up after that going to Dick Lowe's and and getting a bowl off of him. So I'm sure we knecked with him. Um, obviously the Hudson's, just since they were putting it on. So that was and then we ended up going back several years in a row to that the blue grey or not blue bowling green sale at that time. So that was we we really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah, I think our second one was at the uh uh Valentine dispersal would have been maybe that fall, um, down there also in Bowling Green, different location, but in Bowling Green where we bought one of his animals. Um so that was just kind of year after year. But that was the again, that was I don't think I can't recall any other sales anywhere. Uh you know, the next closest one I'm that I'm aware of would be the cherry blossom um at that point in time. Um but there was a futurity and and things uh closer, and and of course the Great Lakes uh Texas Longhorn Association, that's that's probably part of how we got to meet know Dick and some of the Michigan folks, and and those folks better taking our first couple of calves, you know, the next year up there to brand. Tom Smith, Mark Hubble, Johnny, and it, you know, the whole bunch up there. A whole bunch of great, great folks up there.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

The uh Valentine dispersal, I feel like around the time frame that we're talking about, that one sticks out to me more, maybe even than like seeing MRO chiching and some of those cows sell at other sales, because that was the very first sale we ever did internet bidding at. Um hired hand live. So um I remember we felt like uh Mr. Valentine, Lorinda, Bill, they all took a pretty big risk on having it. And now it seems uh now it seems like you know, everybody's using it. So that was it feels like a long time ago, too.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, now it's the opposite. If you don't have hired hand, you're like, oh, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah. I remember though we had a few hiccups that sale. We had a few uh learning moments, so had to work a few kinks out. So but let's fast forward a little bit to today. So your tagline is Eritay. Am I saying that right? Aritay?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Your guess is as good as ours. I'll call it a rat.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Loops of thesaurus guy. Right. Um, well, as I understand it, it's your well, your tagline on your website is Eritay. It's what we breed for. Um, so what does it mean to you in the context of your cattle breeding? Is it horn length, color, the whole animal? Tell me a little bit about that philosophy.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yeah, it's uh, you know, I think to me is um it is the entire animal. And not just um, you know, one trait or another, but it to me what we're trying to breed at at the end, and it took us a little while to get here, and we and we certainly make uh mistakes and and get excited at a sale or somewhere once in a while where we'll buy something that may not be perfect to what we're doing. But um it's really it we want to be able to market our animals, period. I mean, we we want to enjoy what we're looking at out in the pasture, but but we want something that everybody's gonna come and look at and enjoy while being functional and and all the other things that need to happen. Um uh, you know, it's happened where you know you brick miss a calf one year or um or every other year, and uh of course that's not that's not part of it. So um, you know, a good a good calf being raised every year that that somebody is gonna want to buy. They're not gonna be all ten thousand dollar calves that you're selling or a hundred thousand or two thousand, but at least something that's decent. Um that whether it's the guy down the road that just wants to to raise one to to feed his family or for his kids to to look at or um or to bring to an elite sale that that somebody really wants to bring to to add to their herd. You know, that's really really cool when some uh some of these breeders um want something that you produced, right? That that to me is uh kind of irritated. If if uh Bill Hudson and Mike Dwellner and Elizabeth, if they buy something from us, um to me, that animal is probably meets that criteria. Not just them, but that they've just been so great to us over the years and uh and we love going down there. We we make a point once or once or twice a year to go visit. But um when your animals go to those type of of folks, that is eretay to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

And just a few years from that first purchase, your herd grew to around 15 breeding age females plus calves and bulls. How did you balance that growth with staying true to that erete mindset?

SPEAKER_04 15:27

At the end of the day, you gotta call hard in our in our opinion. We we try to be uh knitted in the butt sooner than later. If if one of the animals isn't meeting our criteria, we'll and especially with the beef market as as good as it's been, it's makes it a lot easier to do that. But um at the end of the day, you're still feeding animals, so you we try to get the highest quality. So if we feel one of them animals isn't adding up to the arette, we we'll we'll move them sooner than later, and then that helps our quality in the long run. And then kind of to re Donat off what Dave was saying about having an animal that everybody else wants, so just keeping it trim is is it's been the way we can well.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Sometimes it's a challenge. He he's ready to get the hammer out real early sometimes, uh like within months old. And uh and other times um he wants to hang on to them longer. So that would it it's not always an easy decisions to be made on what stays, what goes, what uh it and how it goes, right? Being mindful of not taking something that is not gonna add value to somebody to a sale and making sure um you know we if if we're gonna sell those to others that we sell them, hey, that this is for beef. It it's not uh it may not be an animal that you'd want to build a herd around, but uh you you can look at it, it's gonna be pretty out there. Maybe you'll get a calf, but don't uh don't expect uh miracles or anything like that. So um that you all different avenues to to get rid of those animals that that aren't doing you you any good because it's it's a struggle every year, every month and every year, all these animals are getting better and better. And uh what was great uh ten years ago is probably still pretty good, but uh what was okay then is not not good at all now.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Are there any that you maybe I don't want to use the word cold, but are there any that you strategically decided to sell um and get rid of a little young, and then down the road you saw that animal grown on someone else's ranch and thought, man, we should have kept that one, or wish wish we wouldn't have parted with that one as fast.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

Well, I think he's alluded to I tried to do that with one of our vesselers that was it's just a slow starter. And it's like, hey man, we gotta she's gotta go. He's like, just hold on a little bit, hold on a little bit, and then you know, then a year later, like, holy smokes, she's uh pretty nice.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

I mean you you gotta remember there are circumstances that even a an animal that that produces very well and creates good calves and and raises them, that there can be circumstances outside of their control that may cause a calf to get slow. Maybe it was born in a rainstorm or in a snowstorm, or uh you know, we didn't have her up at the barn in the dry bedding, or there were stresses because we bought her uh in late in the third trim. You know, there's all kinds of things that um it we are not uh we try to be and and we try to temper each other with uh making sure we're making thoughtful decisions and not just off the cuff uh doing it. Because as we all know, um you you can have the same mating over and over and over again, and you may only get one one grade one out of that. And um that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for the one that you can mate them three or four, five, six different ways, and you still have maybe no superstars, but all really solid calves.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Well, and in the genetics, to really study the genetics and watch and what they've done is is helpful. It's it's early or it's easy to get excited about the her early horn growth, and I would say that's probably one of our early-on mistakes that we've learned from. Is you know, sometimes you you're oh my gosh, it's gotta have a lot of horn right now. And that one heifer we just talked about was a good example where her genetic situation just had her slower growth, and she actually in the end may maybe surpass some of them earlier horn-growth animals. So that was kind of a moment where you, hey, uh try not to react too fast and and to and to know the genetics. And sometimes you gotta wait on certain things, which is not always easy.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

But to directly answer your question, there's one in particular that, yeah, that especially I think by the price that we sold her and how well she turned out, but um as far as uh you know regret it, regretting selling them, wishing them we'd wish we still had them. But uh you gotta sell good ones. You gotta let other people have them, and we gotta pay for it somehow. So there's certainly times where no, don't want to sell that one, that one, that one, or that one, but we still gotta buy hay, we still gotta uh pay to get to the sales, pay consignment fees, pay to to go visit folks and all those things. So uh you're gonna have to sell some of your best sometimes, and that those those do hurt. Uh sometimes not as bad at first until later as as you alluded to.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

But certainly it also makes you proud to have one of your own brandings out there that turned out good. Rather than I'd rather that happen than the opposite happen, where they look great and they turn out as does.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Do you have any rules between each other where you won't where you don't say I told you so when when one's wrong and one's right? Or how's that go?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

No. Love to be right.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Well, who's one of the who's one of the ones that has made you proudest? Whether she sold well through a sale ring or you know, just became a staple in someone else's program. Why don't you each pick one to talk about if if you don't have the same favorite?

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Yeah, yeah, we could do that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Like who would be who would be an animal you're most proud to have bred uh that is in another herd today that you've sold either through the sale ring or private treaty?

SPEAKER_03 22:46

I would say uh there's one in particular uh we sold her at the up at Dan Sale in Wisconsin. And uh she was a solid red heifer, and her mom was solid red uh that we had bought uh the G, uh let's see, what was it? It might have been uh the Fall Classic or the G and G Fall, but one of the two GNG sales from Jay Walker. Really, really nice cow. Um, all the way around, she was red. And uh so we bred her and we got a red heifer. And uh gosh, so we took her up there. I think as a red heifer, she got maybe second in the futurity, and then we sold her and uh she was bred to Django. She was bred to Django, one of the very first uh heifers that we had bred to Django, and uh gentleman named Kevin Klute uh ended up buying her. And I could say we were we were a little disappointed by the price that she sold at. But um to hear later on, and and he's kept us updated on how with how well she's done. She's probably has more horn than any heifer we've ever uh raised. And and of course, she laid down and had a beautiful uh solid black uh Django heifer the next spring. And um, but you know, we we've been on on the positive side of those things also, where uh we snuck one past the goalposts um by chance. People weren't paying attention. Uh Ada said her her mom is a great example of it. Oh, we we bought her mom for less than we sold her, I and and she she was great. Um but that's one and it was pretty cool because it was um uh somebody that uh saw her, took a chance, and and uh Dave Hoving and had brought him a new new Kevin. And uh anyway, that yeah, I've told him probably every year I send him a text and ask him if he ever wants to sell that pair of corsair of the baby's probably two or three years old now, but we I'd I'd buy both of them back.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Well, another one is um special K. We had uh bought reviewed bought the cow off of an online sale, right from Loomis. Mm-hmm. Kohola. Mm-hmm. And um we bred her to Django and got a nice heifer out of her, and she was a slower start in heifer too, but she had really um great horns and horn uh direction and genetics. And man, by the time she was coming on too, we were like, man, this heifer is really nice. And took her down there to the Fort Worth sale, and feel like we got pretty good money out of her 1886, I think, bar.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

That's right. And now she's It was his first his first sale also was was that weekend, and I think he bought both of our heifers uh that night. I I think the one of them was that might have been the one was the first heifer he ever bought.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

And and she's she's I mean it's been a year or two, but from what I can tell, she's turned out really nice. So that that's a nice heifer to to tell you bred and sell at a sale like that for good money.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

So and what what was what was her name?

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Uh Special K, Kibi Special K.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Um, so some of your cattle are owned in partnership. Um, and you have a family friend that I understand, his nickname is Alan Jackson that you own a few with. Uh what do you feel like makes a good partnership in the Longhorn world and why do those relationships matter?

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Well, that one is a a little bit funny. Um because it we kind of used each other early on because we didn't want to invest much money. So it was really from a finan out of a financial um drive to do it where hey he'd own a little bit of them and he could uh uh he doesn't travel near as much or get near as much involved, but he felt like he was kind of uh living vicariously through us with in the Longhorn world and and would feel pretty good. I mean, some of those animals he he had owned their mothers or them in partnership with us. Um and uh I don't think we own anything with them anymore. We're still great friends. We go, we visit, and and I think we have a group text between the three of us that's uh if I'm in a meeting, I come out, I have about 10 of them in there at any time during the week. But he doesn't like to sell anything. Ever. So that was kind of as a matter of fact, one animal we had sold uh at a sale that we owned together, and we said, well, so so we always said it, we're gonna do it, but we're gonna make the decision on when to sell, how to breed. You you can have input, but we're gonna make the final decision. So one of them uh we owned in partnership, we took to a sale, he bought it at the sale. So he bought his own heifer uh at the sale, but that's kind of where I think he he decided, hey, I don't want to be pushed into doing what I want. So all that leading into that's very important to have to understand the expectations and the goals of everybody uh involved in the partnership. Um it'd be challenging for me to get into one without really knowing and understanding the the other breeder and what they wanted to do. Um probably our first our first couple were again, we'll go back to the Hudson's and Mike Willinger, and uh um I couldn't think of a better partner to have. And um, you know, when we when we got into Django, um Mike called and said, Hey, what there's a guy, and and Wayne was was pretty pretty new. I we had no idea who Wayne was. Um said, well, Wayne, Wayne Manning would like to get in. And um in that case was hey, if Mike says it's okay, it's okay. We'd trust him with with any of those decisions. But but we've built a great relationship with him over the years. So I think it really comes down to if we're gonna partner, we better understand dates everything very clear so that there's not uh not any hurt feelings down the road.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

But it creates opportunity and and networking, you know. Now we we we met some new people and and different genetics and stuff. So partnership and and just the camaradity of it and just being a you know, talking to different game plans and strategies and all that stuff is it is part of what makes it fun. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

I believe you all have bought and sold cattle from Virginia to California, Michigan to Texas. So just, you know, all over. How has that exposure to different regions and programs not only helped you grow, but also shaped your eye for cattle that you add to your herd?

SPEAKER_03 30:01

I don't know that it's the geographic region as much as it is the people that that you're meeting and their ranches and how they've managed their ranches. And of course, there's there's different management techniques based on region. Um, but as far as the actual animal, um, I don't know that it's yeah, maybe you have a different opinion, but the animal itself in the region, I don't know that it shaped it. It's just uh being able to go visit folks in different different areas and different regions and and uh certainly learning techniques and other things that that can help along the way, whether it's uh certain minerals or certain tools or certain tricks uh on how to do things.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Uh well some of it's by chance. Sometimes you get um say spend more money on a cow and and maybe things don't turn out, and sometimes we've spent less money on a cow and it and and it's produced. So it's not and I think that's part of part of the fund. Part of what keeps you guessing, keeps you interested is is nothing's guaranteed, but you try to do your research and do your diligence and and after time and and and weeding some of the things out, we've we've got a couple of genetic lines that we've really kind of took and fawn to. We've seen some consistencies and stuff like that. So now that we've got a couple um heifers out of them, we're able to say, okay, this is this is what we like. And now we're focusing on building around these couple um pedigrees or a couple genetic packages that we've we've found effective.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

For folks who maybe haven't visited your website, can you tell me who those genetic lines are and and how you're crossing them and maybe some of the the young ones that you're excited about through them?

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Yeah. Um one is uh from Dun Bravo Celebrity, uh, is the is the name of the cow. And she's getting older now, uh 14, 15, 16 years old. And um we bought her at the Legends sale, knowing her consistency in the calves uh and and the daughters and sons that she had uh had raised, both. Um she had been flushed, uh, but you know, with a lot of different bulls, she made really good calves. And she had um she had a vindicator daughter at her side, and we loved that heifer, so we bred her to higher ground, you know, just to bring more more of uh uh to stay with that that sire side and bring more of the maternal. And then uh gosh, she hit it out of the park with Django. But but but that's a big one. And we have a we have a young bull calf at home uh by Line Drive that a bull that we had that that looks fantastic. So it was a cow that that hit all the time and and their their offspring were hitting. So that's one main line.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

Uh that's probably our biggest and to and to make note, if the female clicks with something, sometimes you can just go back to it and try to repeat it. Especially if you're trying to uh flush or do some IVF work.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

So do you have your future matings planned, you know, two, three, four years down the road already?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Luke tries to get me at least a year, year and a half ahead, and I struggle with it. Um we have an idea of what they are. Uh they change a lot of times, but we've um you know, we've bought our last few bulls, we've we've really finally uh got to the point after we, you know, we we got really fortunate with Django when we got him. He was unproven, hadn't hadn't done anything. Um same even before that with Hubble's Butch Cassidy. But then after that, we bought Brazo's tough cowboy. So he's a little bit older, but it gosh, it he hits with a lot of different cows. And and he brings in some of those uh alfie uh genetics that that seem to be do so well, but across the board. Um so that's where we we brought him in. So we're pretty pretty well dead set on most of our matings right off the bat is that we we invested uh well on that bull, or we we believe well with that bull. So we're gonna let him uh do as much as much as he can.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Um, you know, some young heifers we may um We still try to do some AI work just to try to bring in some other genetics. That's not the majority of it, but we still try to do a percentage of it just to bring in some of the top-end sires on the market.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Are there any um AI buns in the oven that you're excited about that you can tell that you can share with our listeners, or are you keeping those uh keeping those secret till they hit the ground?

SPEAKER_03 35:46

I don't I I don't think we had very good success this last year.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Uh we have a higher ground uh mating with uh ponytail. And then Ponytail is Oh yeah yeah. She's uh was it a daughter to Chantelli's lace. Chantelli lace. Yeah, that's 105-inch one. And now that genetic package is something we're pretty excited about. So it should be a a heifer, and uh we'll see that here pretty soon. So I I'm excited about that one for sure.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

So another one that could be kind of cool is going back to Celebrity. Um we have a higher ground daughter and we have a Django daughter. So we took the Django daughter, which we we love both of them. Um so we bred the Django daughter to higher ground.

SPEAKER_04 36:43

But higher ground click with her mom. So we think they'll click with her, and then you add in Django, and he's she's black, so you got a little bit of the color, and then kind of a consistent mating or a mating that you've seen work in the past. So we're we're hoping that that takes it up another notch.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Exciting. Well, let's shift gears here and talk a little bit just about your family and your kids and and ranch life in general. Um, so between both of your families, it's very much, you know, a set of family ranches. What does it mean to you both to be raising your kids alongside the cattle?

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Well, I'll let Luke talk more about that because I have failed miserably at that. Uh uh my family is they don't dislike them, but they don't have too much interest in it. But uh I wish they did, but I get when I was their age, I didn't, you know, they're 16 and 18, getting ready to go to college and their licenses and all that kind of stuff and uh at this point. So they don't really have any interest. But Luke's kids have Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

Some of them like it more than others, right? We got one of them that really likes it, and some of them that are, you know, not so much. Or they like it, they just don't want to get involved in the chores and the everyday work, but they they all like to be part of the longhorn family and they look for opportunities for that. So that's it's it's good sometimes just to get them out of the house, right? It's easy to these days to get stuck on screen. So just having an avenue like that to get everybody outside for maybe a branding party or or just uh maybe it's a nice summer day, and hey, let's go hop in the ranger and take a ride and just you know what I mean, spend a little bit of time with your family. So that's that that's uh nice to have available at your back door.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

So what do your normal day-to-day tasks look like or your day-to-day operations look like for the ranch?

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Well, one thing nice about that is um we kind of rotate shifts. So it kind of gives us both the day off or whatever. So depending on what schedule, and since we both have kids, and sometimes I got basketball, or you got this, or you got that, we take turns doing that.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

So it it's pretty simple most days. Cold or wet and muddy sucks as it does for anybody, but we only have our animals in three places, and they're all right on 40 acres. So it's very simple. Uh all but one, we do have uh auto waters with uh with heat, so as long as we make sure that's good and we don't have issues with freezing uh in the water, which typically we don't.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

We got some high traffic pads put in and and we've over the last couple years we invested a lot in fencing and some buildings and setting it up to try to make a I guess easy sword. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 40:15

As easy as it can to a lot easier than when we were kids, uh pitching manure with pitchforks and uh and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Well, looking back on all of your experiences, uh, what's something that you thought you understood about longhorns early on, but maybe you've been humbled by experience or you wouldn't give that same advice or you know, uh maybe lessons learned you can share with us?

SPEAKER_04 40:43

My I kind of talked on it earlier. I've chasing that early horn growth with, you know, we really, oh man, we got a bull early on because he was kicking it out, but then it didn't necessarily uh wasn't a long-term goal for us. It didn't wasn't how we see in the end seen ourselves going a different direction. So it was more of the genetics and and understanding on how it works out. So reacting to what's hot, I would say would try to make sure you're staying true to what you really liked and not just chase the uh latest and greatest. I mean, when we were starting, there were some really hot animals out there that really had a lot of horn growth, and they were really high on a lot of sales. And now they've seen that some of those other animals that that weren't coming right out of the gate have kind of surpassed them and and and now you can see that trend in the sales where the longer-term genetics have have kind of came through rather than the short-term.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

What do you feel like is the best way for folks to try to learn or teach themselves about the genetics if they're not familiar, they're just getting started?

SPEAKER_03 41:59

It's it you have to get out and you have to go play, and at least I do. If you if you have my personality and uh you gotta go. Wherever it is, uh, you know, sales and uh whatever kind it is, sales and events, shows, um on any spectrum. Go to go to the the haltered shows, go to um futurity shows, go to um sales, go to all whatever you can that you can get to relatively easily, and seek people out and talk to them. And and then to back all that up is use the hired hand websites and use you know Craig's uh Arrowhead Cattle Company, uh with all the links to all the things and you and the hired hand search features and really understand how to navigate through there. And uh you can go down a rabbit hole on that and and really study certain genetics. That was probably the um I mean that's how we've been found on some animals that that uh um that people have purchased because they're it they liked a certain genetic package and they're trying to find something like that that is in a consistent family, and and through the website and and tracking it down, they found us. We we didn't we don't know a lot of a lot of folks in the industry. You know, it's it's too big, it's too vast, we're not able to to get to to all the sales and events. Plenty of people come in and they spend a whole bunch of money right at first because it's so fun and you get caught up in the moment. And thank God we didn't do that. Um we'd have been out of it a long time ago if we'd done it. But we bought one. I don't know that we've ever bought more than two at a sale. And um and you know, we're careful on all right, if we're gonna buy one, we've got to sell two. That's just it, you know, that's that's probably one of the main rules that we have is okay, we want to we want to buy something, we better sell two or be selling a really good one and look for opportunities.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Well, and and we've made it a point now to when we're going down to Texas to try to couple take a couple extra days and then try to do some range tours down there. And so we've we've made some good met some good people and made some good relationship. I mean, we made it down to Brazos last year, just that's how we got hooked up with Brazos Tough Cowboy and went to DCT and met up with those guys and um Yeah, a lot a lot of traveling for worker vacations.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Um just looking to find who who has ranches close by where we are, and we're traveling, we have an extra few hours uh to go meet folks and talk to them.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Well, you touched on one thing that's a good segue into my next question. Um, how important do you feel like it has been having a professional website and how much time has it saved you, you know, back and forth on on cattle you're trying to sell or maybe ones folks are interested in?

SPEAKER_03 45:07

I think it it's invaluable to me. I mean, if when we and I look at it from the other, when we want to buy something and we're researching for a sale, um it's a lot harder to do if they don't have a hired hand website. Not that you can't, and we certainly make phone calls and other things on animals that we're interested in. Um, but to have that information at your fingertips so you can really quickly uh look and and research is it yeah, I You know, it was hard to justify first with only three, four, five animals. But um at the end of the day, if you're gonna be a part of a part of it and uh and try to market animals, I I don't know how you could do it without unless you're just if you're there all the time. Maybe, maybe if you went to every futurity and every sale, maybe you wouldn't have to if you brought your whole all your heifers and everything, but certainly wouldn't work for us without it.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Is that how many you think you had when you got started? Was when you started the website was only three or four? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

We might have had six or eight, but it it was not very many. There was not very many. Yeah. Maybe it was ten, but not everything was stuff we wanted to show off either and put on there necessarily.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

And how many head are you up to now?

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Twenty-five. Twenty-five to thirty. We kind of go up and down on that number. Just kind of depends on on the year and what kind of calves we have and who's interested.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Is there an ideal herd size that you try to stay at or that you want to get to?

SPEAKER_03 46:48

That's it. That that's the number. It's what we have pastures um for, it's what our facilities are kind of built for without buying a bunch more land. Um, and there's not least ground really available around here. It's uh everything's row crops. So I don't think you could ever some people may be able to. We we are unable to, at least with with full-time jobs and doing other stuff, being able to justify going out and and being able to buy more property to to do it on the other.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

And our kids do sports and and just time, just availability. It's it just works for us.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

We can brand our our whole year's worth of calves in about two hours. Uh if we need to work the whole the whole herd and deworm them and stuff like that, two hours. So uh if we have games in the afternoon, typically we can get it done in the morning. And uh so I'd say, yeah, that the number that we have is is ideal. Um unless we retire and win the lottery or something, then then maybe we buy a thousand acres and have the biggest herd in northeast Indiana. But uh but I would doubt it. That that may take the enjoyment out of it for us. Um you know it's it's not so much where it makes it a chore when you're doing chores.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

What do you feel like the future looks like for Pine Brothers Longhorns?

SPEAKER_04 48:12

I touched on a little bit before, just really focusing in on those couple couple pedigrees that we really like. We're now we we've kind of hey, this is what we like, we're really focusing on and trying to figure out how we can get the best bowls and and get the best calves on the ground possible.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Do you have a favorite event like futurity sale show that you attend that you even with the kids' sports or your schedules, you're like, we're never gonna, we don't ever miss this one, we go every year, or do you try to pick a new one you haven't been to and go to every year? What's your strategy there?

SPEAKER_03 48:50

They've kind of come and gone, but the kids stuff still trumps it all. Um you know, there was a while, you know, we went to the Wisconsin one for quite a while, but um both of our kids are baseball. Uh all his sons and and my son, they're baseball. And that's um typically about the last tournament of the of the season. And so that's where we're gonna be, is where our kids are. Now I only have maybe two more years, then maybe I can get back to going to that one.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

But the fourth were four-worth salesman of pretty we've went to the last four or five years, and we really liked that just the whole atmosphere and being downtown and and all the ranches so close around, and that's been kind of the one we've we've been trying to hit on a consistent basis.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Yeah, I would say so. At this point, that's the one.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

But in the past, we we were trying to, hey, let's go here, let's go here. Um, Horn Showcase a couple times. We went out to we try to go to the East Coast, sometimes the cherry blossom. We try to mix it up a little bit, and then the bluegrass sail is pretty close to us too. So we we end up getting there too. So as many as we can get to.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

And you're at the kids' games. Do you ever get to sneak hired him live on your phone and follow along a little bit or no? I don't want to get you in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

Yeah, absolutely. And and vice versa. Um I was at, I don't remember what sale it was, but I was actually at a sale and I I think I had to use somebody else's phone too, because I did miss an event of my kids. So I was watching my daughter dance, my son play baseball on somebody else's phone, and then watching the sale. Yeah. So or or I'm doing it the other way. I'm at a game and I'm watching the sale and I have my earbud in, and and then somebody's trying to talk to me. My wife has to tell him, Oh, he he's watching a sale. Or so yes, it absolutely happens.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

What what haven't I asked you both about that you want to make sure you share with our listeners about your program or anything else we didn't cover?

SPEAKER_03 51:01

Um you know, other than to say to be involved in this industry has really been really a nice way to meet people um all over the country, um or world even, and uh and just learn a little bit about you know, folks from different different areas, even outside of the CADA, knowing about it. Uh you know, I'd go we may go somewhere and I'd send it to somebody we've met that we know lives in in an area. Hey, we're gonna be in this area. What do you think about what do we do at the Ozarks? You know, we're gonna we have a family vacation down here. Hey, we're gonna go to to some other area and just stuff like that. Right. Stop by for a visit.

SPEAKER_04 51:42

We got a cousin's wedding in Vermont in this summer, and I've already talked to Mike Albany's, and we're just gonna stop by and visit, you know, just it just because the relationships and just all the great people, it's it's more than kind of the longhorns, it's it's more the the family type atmosphere and brotherhood and enjoyment. So yeah, I want to change it. I I don't think I would go back. If we had a chance again, we'd do the same thing over.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Well, tell us where folks can follow along and see your cattle and learn more about Pine Brothers Longhorns.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Probably the website is the best place. Um not that great at updating social media. I know that's a pretty good spot to show things, but um we go through spurts. But we we do try to update the website periodically and uh andor at events. And of course, we're always available to call or or or email or message or or whatever. Would we enjoy talking about them just as much as the next person?

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Luke and Dave, thank you for sharing your story. And it seems like you have a really great example of what happens when family and opportunity and intention all come together. Um, and I really like that the the values that you have that guide your program. So thanks for sharing that with everyone today.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Yeah, thanks for having us.