SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi there, I'm Molly. And I'm Jamie. We're the owners of Higher Hand Software. And this is season six of our From the Pasture podcast. For more than 15 years, we've been helping breeders promote their pedigree livestock with our easy-to-use, animal management-driven website software. Each week, we bring you stories from the pasture, breeding philosophies, ranch traditions, cattle knowledge, and conversation with folks using Hired Hand to power their livestock marketing. So settle in for today's episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand. Today on From the Pasture with Hired Hand, we're heading to the Hill Country of Texas to visit with Kathy Paladini of Double K Longhorns. Kathy and her husband Keith run a 2,000-acre operation just outside of Junction, where they're raising registered Texas Longhorns with a focus on the whole animal. But what makes Kathy's story a little different is that she's also a seriously talented photographer. She's built a canvas art business right alongside her cattle operation, all from the same hired hand-powered website. We're going to dig into the breeding program, the photography, and how she's turned her eye for a great animal into something bigger. Thanks so much for joining me today, Kathy. Hey, Molly. Thanks for inviting me. We're very excited to have you on. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Well, why don't we start by just telling our listeners a little bit about Double K Longhorns? Where are you at in the hill country? How long have you been doing this? What does your operation look like today?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Well, we're located in Junction, which is about an hour and a half to two hours from um San Antonio and also about two hours west of Austin. Um we um Keith and I bought the ranch back in 2014, and the following year we added longhorns. He bought them as a gift to me. Um and I wasn't really into that. I had never been around cattle in my entire life, and I was not excited about it at all. But within about a week or two, I was absolutely hooked. And I believe within three months, I was on a plane flying to Ohio to get some cattle company and um picking out some more girls to add to the herd. So right now, um 12 years later or so, we are about at 80 head total. I try to keep my herd under 100. Um, just I've found the more I have, the more problems arise. You know, there's just more opportunities for things to go wrong. So to keep things um more simplified and easier to handle, I try to keep my herd size down. So with my cows, calves, heifers, and all, I'm at about 80 right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Well, I want to touch on something you said. So you said you weren't excited at all when you got them as a gift. Tell me a little bit about just what like why you weren't excited or what you thought maybe longhorns were or why you were going to have them. And then also tell me what finally got you hooked.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Um, I just didn't know anything about cattle. I I was raised in a suburb of Houston, um, as I like to say, in the shadows of NASA, because that was the community that I grew up in. Um Keith, on the other hand, he lived nearby, but in a more agricultural area. And so he had seen longhorns and loved them. Um, I just hadn't didn't have any exposure to cattle when I was younger, and so it was more just, you know, not knowing anything about them, and it made me uneasy. And also when we bought the ranch, I really fell in love with the wildlife that was here. And so my focus was on the deer. I had trail cameras set up all over this place, and that was really my what I was fascinated with. Um but when Keith gifted me with these longhorns, I was scared to death of them at first, but they were so gentle and personable. I mean, I could interact with them, I could hand feed them cubes, I could scratch them on the head. I don't do any of that now, but back then, I mean, it just drew me into the to the breed. Um, and of course, they're just so beautiful. They're just so absolutely majestic. Any long horn is, in my opinion. Uh it doesn't matter what color they are or how big their horns are, they're just a beautiful animal. So that's really what drew me in.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

So is that a story that you and Keith look back on and and kind of chuckle now that everything has transpired the way it has?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Very much so. He he says that I've become obsessed with them, and I have. And it's funny because he's really taken a back seat. He's he's extremely supportive of me, but it's my thing. You know, he has his hobbies and interests and responsibilities. Um, but he's happy to just kind of stay in the background and and let me do my thing and make my breeding decisions and whether I want to add this animal or that animal, which animals I sell, all of it. He's just he's very supportive, though. He's started to attend some sales with me recently. Um, but yes, it's funny how it all came about because he was the one that wanted them. And now I've gone just hog wild.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

And do you still are you still excited about the deer? Like are do you still have trail cameras up on them or have the longhorns just kind of taken all your all your interest?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Well, I don't have the trail cameras up anymore, but I still love the wildlife. And in fact, I had a huge red stag in my front yard this morning that I was taking pictures of. I was out there just having my coffee. And he walked up, so I ran in the house and grabbed my camera. Um, but yeah, I still have interest in the wildlife very much, but um, they do take a back seat.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

So did the name Double K come before or after the Longhorns?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Um it came before it's what we named the ranch. It was Double K Ranch, and it's just for Kathy and Keith. We couldn't come up with anything better. Sometimes simple is the best.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Sorry? I said sometimes simple is the best.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah. Well, and then when when I got into the longhorns, I was leery of using double K because I didn't know how that would convey in the Longhorn world. Um, and then when it came to selecting names, you know, using a prefix and a brand, um, I had to take all that into consideration. I looked in horns. Um, we may be getting too far off right now, but I looked in horns to see if KK was used, and as a matter of fact, Kathy Kittler was using it, and I believe Carl Kressman had used it. Um, so it was spoken for. And so I had to get kind of creative there, you know, as far as the naming convention for my animals. But it's funny how when we named the ranch and then got the longhorns, I never realized, you know, what impact that would have.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

So well, I feel like we get that question from a lot of new breeders, though, is they don't, they they're so excited to have the animals, they haven't thought through how how what type of brand they'll have, what their brand will be, you know, if there's another ranch by that name incorporated in their county or their you know town seat or whatnot. So did you have anyone that kind of helped you and Keith through that process, or were you literally just learning as you went? It's strictly trial and error, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

And I did go down to um the county courthouse to file my brand. And um I did modify it a little bit after I saw their brand book. You know, I had to because the brand that I initially came up with had already been spoken for. So I I modified that. And our brand that I actually put on the cattle is different than the logo that I use, um, you know, on my social media posts, on my watermarks and such. Um, and that was something else I didn't really understand if it had to be the same or if they could be different.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Just kind of did my own thing there. So you mentioned that when you were getting started, you you checked in horns, and there were a few other KK um prefixes. What did you land on for your animal name prefix?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Um DBL-K. Um, and it did not catch on right away. Um to me, the DBL was obviously double, but apparently it wasn't in anybody else's mind. So I think it has finally caught on. Chase Vasuit helped with that tremendously by reading the reading the name, you know, when I sell consign animals. And I think enough people heard it that it started to catch on then. Um it probably wasn't the the smartest thing to go with, but it's definitely unique.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Well, I would say it's very well known today. So it it definitely weathered, you know, weathered the test of time. So I think anyone that sees a Dblk or Double K or you know, they they know what they're getting. So um let's let's shift gears and talk about that. So walk me through the double K breeding program today. What are you selecting for? What does your ideal double K animal look like?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Oh um, you know, mainly I want an animal that's got nice conformation. I like to almost make a rectangle. I always, you know, want them to have almost a rectangle shape, a little deeper in the body, um, but I'm a stickler for uh strong top lines, clean underlines. Um color and horn are are nice, but they're not as important to me as really good confirmation. Um I prefer a feminine female with a slender face, a clean long neck. Personally, I don't have a lot of that, but that's what I'm breeding for. Um, that's something that's really important to me. Um and also larger framed animals. I think that's something else that might set me apart from other breeders. Um I like a large animal. I like my cows to be in the 1200 pound and up range. Um I have some that are 1,400 pounds even, and that's not when they're just overly conditioned. They're just big, they have good bone structure, um, easy fleshing. I would say that that pretty well describes a double K female.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Do you feel like it took you a while to figure out what you liked? Very much so. Tell me so, tell me a little bit about that breeding journey, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

You know, I'm not really sure how I ended up where I am. I know that I started with um some butler cows in the very beginning. And um had some cool twisty horns, but uh they were smaller framed animals, and I don't know really how I got to where I am. I just as as the years progressed and I went to more futurities and sales, and you know, certain animals just appealed to me, and um, I just kind of landed here. I do love colorful animals, don't get me wrong, I I said that wasn't super high on my list. Um, it is important, and I do like a colorful animal. Um, and that's something that I didn't start with. The the herd that I had originally were were plainer looking. Um but yeah, I don't know. I just kind of ducked and weaved my way until I got to this.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

I feel like for anyone that's looked at your website, it's funny to hear you say that you that colors kind of last on the list because I feel like you have every single trait you just listed off, but you also always have color, like they're always speckled up, they're always very fancy looking, you know. So it's it's interesting to hear you say that you didn't prioritize that, it just kind of came with the other qualities.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

It did, it just happened purely by mistake, but I do love it, I really do. And I actually test my animals for the color gene. Uh several of mine have carry the wild gene, which throws the Brindle and Parker Brown. Um, and so that makes it interesting too, because I can kind of look at what color genetics the bull has, what the female has, and just have an idea of what I'm probably gonna end up with. When you have that wild gene, then you've got a better chance of popping with some color.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

How long have you been testing?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Um probably four or five years now, I believe. It's been a while. And I also test for, well, I I do the parent verification and then that spun off into the uh beef hygenity testing, which Kevin Bryant told me about. And they test for maternal traits, um, they test for um feeder type traits, they're ribeye area, tenderness, marbling, and things like that, which I also find helpful, especially in my feeder steers. I know whether to get cuts of stakes or grind them all up. But yeah, DNA testing is something that I've really grown interested in in the last few years.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

How so? Like maybe for our listeners that haven't ever done it or aren't familiar with it, what what interests you? What would your advice to them be if they want to, you know, get started doing it? What other benefits do you see to your herd?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Um, first of all, it's really easy to get started in it. All you need is an ear punch and the supplies from Neogen. Um, even if you go through the TLBAA to have it done, you still have to have your own supplies. Um and when I wean the calves, I just take the ear punch then. And after you send it in, whether you go through TLBAA or Neogen directly, um, in about a month you'll get the results back. And then for instance, I use the color testing more for bull selection. Um whether I used it to decide whether I wanted to keep a young bull intact if I thought he had a chance of throwing Brindle. Um like I said, I use it for my steers to determine what cuts to get, if any. The maternal traits I haven't used extensively because mine have all been right pretty consistent. Um I guess I've already culled for problem animals, you know, that don't have good maternal traits, aren't good milkers, or um have I haven't had any that have calving difficulty, but that's another trait that they test for. Um but I I haven't had any issues there, so I haven't used uh that those traits um for selection in my breeding, but I have used the color and um the tenderness and marbling.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

So when you're looking to add animals to your herd, whether it be a female at a consignment sale, maybe a private treaty bull, um, do you find yourself seeking out those animals who have had testing done? Or do you rely more on your eye and your gut for those types of purchases? Yeah, I don't prioritize DNA testing.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

It I don't know that many people that do it. Um I know a few do, but no, that isn't something that I ask for, although it's one of the first things that I do when I when I bring the animal in. Um in fact I bought a female recently and I pulled DNA on her the first day I brought her in. And even though she was solid red, sure enough, she carries the wild gene. So she's young, there's a chance she's gonna brindle, but even more so, there's a chance that she's gonna pass that on.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

So it still helps with your decisions on who you'll breed her to and and kind of her future in your herd then? Yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like you've been in this breed long enough that your johnet your genetics are showing up in other people's programs. What does that mean to you when you see a double-k animal making an impact on another ranch?

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

It's it feels really good, especially if it's a positive impact. You know? Um I have to say that there may have been animals that I sold early on that I wish I hadn't. I admit I have purchased some of them back.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

That's it's there's gotta be a story there. We gotta hear at least one story. A story in the animal's name, so we can go look her up. I'm not telling.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Um, but yeah, I have a couple of them back. Uh, it's funny how I sell an animal, and yes, I absolutely love to see other people doing great things with them. Um, but it also kills me to look at and go, oh my gosh, look how nice she turned out. And then I have to bring her back. It's easier for me to sell young animals, to sell heifers. Um, because once they have, I I bond with them. So it's harder for me to let them go at that point. But when you sell them young, you know, they continue to develop. And one day you open Facebook and you go, Oh no, what have I done? And then you have to pay a pretty good penny to get them back.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

I feel like there's a lesson there, though. I think it was Dale Hunt would always tell folks like if you're gonna take a cow to town, take your, you know, your one of your best, you want your best animals representing you in those sales. So you've definitely done that correctly. If you're if you're wowed by them enough to want to bring them back to your yeah, and that is something that I have kept in mind.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Um, I've consigned to some sales the last few years, and I had always heard that it should hurt, you know, when you select an animal, you should pick one that that is special enough that it hurts. And I do that. Um, and it does hurt to see them go. And I even this morning I I was thinking, I wish there was one I really wish I hadn't sold. Um, but you've got to put your good stuff out there, you know. So it's okay. I'll just buy her back in a few minutes.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Well, now I know I can't ask you who that one is because you're gonna wanna you're gonna want to keep that one on the down low. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in addition to, you know, having your breeding out there impacting other ranchers, you've also kind of become a pro at the faturity competitions. So maybe tell our listeners a little bit about what your learning curve was with the faturities. And then I'm also curious, do you still have nerves when your animal walks into the ring? Like, are you still nervous how they'll compete?

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Very much so. Um, although I don't get to compete as much as I used to, or as much as I would like to. Um, it is definitely still nerve wracking. Um even though I'm Usually pretty confident with what I take. Now I will call friends, you know, and send pictures and say, what do you think? Should I take her to town or not? And make sure that I have that I'm not barn blind because that is something that happens. Um, but if I get support from my friends, I'll take them to town, and then it's just a matter of hoping that they don't act goofy in the ring, because you just never know, or they might stand in an unflattering position. They may be the most beautiful halfer out in the pasture, but you get them in an environment that they're unfamiliar with, and you just you just never know what they're gonna do. Um, as far as a learning curve, yes and no. Um I had the benefit of spending quite a bit of time with Nancy Dunn. Um she was knocking it out of the park in the futurity ring at that time. Um I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with her and attend futurities and sales with her. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot watching her, I learned a lot um watching what she took to town. Um, I learned a lot about getting nervous about how your animal's gonna do. Because even with as much success as she's had, you know, she she still, I think, has a little bit of nerves. Um but that helped me tremendously. I went to probably, I don't, 10 or more futurities before I ever participated in my first one. Um, and even then, I I took a variety of animals with me, and some did well and some did not do so well. And I've even had some that landed in dead last plow. That's happened to me twice. I mean, somebody has to end up there, right? Um, and it was me a couple of times, and that's okay. I found out it was even though it was devastating to me at the time, um, this one particular heifer has become an outstanding mother. I mean, really, she's fantastic, a fantastic producer. She's produced some very valuable offspring for me that I have sold. Um, so it made me realize that not all animals are futurity winners. They may still have a ton of value in your herd, just not necessarily in the futurity ring, and that's fine. But it that did take me a little while to figure out.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

So while you were waiting to kind of take that first group and you were watching and learning, when you ended up that you took your first animals, were they your of your own breeding or were they a mixture of some you had purchased and some you have bred? What kind of where did that fall in your in your herd development?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Um, I believe in the beginning, because I was still so new. I believe the first futurity I took was a mixture of some that I raised, but probably more. I don't think I bought the animal. I think I bought the dam, and then the calf was born at my place. So that's kind of why it wasn't my breeding specifically. So but I think I took, I think I took some of my own, but I can definitely tell you that it means so much more when the winner is a double-k branded animal.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

So who is your favorite cow in the pasture right now? You haven't really mentioned any names yet, so now I'm gonna put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Well, I have a cow that I did not raise myself, but she came. Um I believe she was at the side of a cow that I purchased from somebody for not very much money at all. And um, her name is Winning Streak, and she has given me two herds hires um and two phenomenal daughters and granddaughters and grandsons. She's the least suspecting animal. If you were to see her in my herd, you would say, What is she doing there? Because she doesn't, she she's different than any of the other ones. But she is my number one producer. I I don't think she even has 75 inches of horn, but she's got a daughter that I think is 95 inches with twisty horn, absolutely beautiful. So I would say winning streak, and then probably her firstborn daughter, winning highness, is um those are my two favorites.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So does it matter who you cross winning streak with, or she just constantly outproduces herself?

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Um, she outproduces herself no matter which bull I put her with. And who's winning highness out of? Um her sire is Dunaces High. Um, that was the first bull that I bought. Um I bought him from Nancy, obviously, and used him in my herd for a couple years. He's a 50-50 son, and he's still around. I'm still partners on him. Um, and he's still out there generating offspring for us. But um, yeah, Dun Ace is high. And then I also had quite a bit of success with Dun Got Double Lucky. Um he's a lucky dice daughter.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Aside from those two bulls, do you have a favorite either in your herd today or just in the industry in general, like dead or alive, a bull that you just feel like has made, you know, a great impact?

SPEAKER_01 29:11

You know, I don't really like to name names. I think I think so much of it has to do with the female. You know, some genetics just cross better. Um I I I don't know any bull that does a fantastic job on every female that it's put with. Personally, I am a fan of Jamaican lines. Um, I like drag iron. Um, I had a Tibbs son that nobody has probably ever heard of, but he had a huge impact on my herd. His name was Pioneer. Um, but the I don't have a lot of animals out of big name bulls, so I don't, I I wouldn't. But I liked the bulls I used.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Well, you're being kind of tricky to nail down here, so I don't know how you're gonna feel about this question. But um, are there any breeders or mentors who have maybe not shaped the direction of your program but contributed to it, a lesson they taught you along the way, or advice they've given you, or anything?

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Um I think the best advice that I got was breed what you like. And I heard it from so many people, I can't attribute it to just one. Um, but that was probably the best advice. You know, there is another breeder that that strongly influenced my herd and and or breeders, I should say. Early on, Kathy Hawk introduced me to Bill and Sue Burton and John Stockton. And I ended up building the majority of my foundation herd with their genetics. And Sue was so kind. She helped me pick out some really stellar females. Um, and I they just really had a big impact on my breeding program. You don't hear them mentioned quite as often. They they were never really in the limelight. Randy Murray has now acquired that herd, and he's carrying on those wonderful genetics and adding some new stuff. Um, but yeah, that they were really kind and helpful to me in the beginning. And I'm really proud I still have a couple of of those original cows that I've say to a woman who's interested in the breed but feels like it's not her space.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

This is kind of touching on the story you told previously, where you know, you're mostly the hands-on one in your marriage and your and your endeavors with the lawnhorns.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Well, you know, I wasn't raised to ever really see a difference between uh males and females, what they're capable of doing. Um, so it never occurred to me that this was more of a male-dominated field and and and indeed industry, and it is, but I I don't I don't think anything of it. I mean, when I if I'm interested in something, I'm it's not the first time I've been the only woman in the room. It doesn't bother me. Um it like I said, if I'm interested, I'm gonna do it. And I think the same thing for other women. If if it's something that they love, go for it. Um, I remember getting my livestock trailer, oh my heavens, and hauling cattle the the first time. Um my parents thought I was out of my mind because they're like, where did this come from? Like, I don't know. I don't, and no, if anybody had a crystal ball back then and said Kathy would be hauling cattle, um, no, I never would have believed it. But at the same time, this is not a male or female thing, I don't think, so much as I'm not as young as I was. And so there are just some things that are physically more difficult for me to do. That's part of the reason I don't participate in as many futurities as I used to. Uh, it's just physically demanding. Um, so in that respect, I think a young woman is fine, but um, I've reached an age where some things are becoming more difficult. Hey, men slow down too, so very true.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

What advice would you give to someone who's just getting started in the breed and trying to build their first herd?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Breed for what you like. Buy what you like, breed for what you like. Don't pay attention to well, hang on, let me let me correct that. It depends on what your goals are. If you want animals that you just look out in your pasture and you enjoy, then by all means, definitely just breed what you like and don't worry about the flavor of the month that you see on Facebook. However, if you want, if you strive to sell at registered sales or bring top dollar for your offspring, then I really feel like the bigger names do help when it comes to selling. Um, just find something that you still like. You know, don't breed to a bull that you don't like or buy a cow you don't like just because it has a name. Um, but I I would take that into consideration if that's your goal.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

If you could change one thing about when you started, would you change anything or what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Um, I don't think I would.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I I I don't think I would. I didn't I didn't come by the most efficient route, but that's okay because everything is a learning experience. So I'm okay with it. I love that. I love your attitude. Well, when I'm in the midst of it, it may not. But looking back.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Exactly. Well, let's switch gears a little bit, and I'd like to ask you some questions about your livestock photography and your canvas art, if that's okay. Sure. So you're not just a breeder, you're a genuinely talented photographer. For anyone who's looked at your website or seen your pictures on social. When did photography enter the picture? Were you someone that always carried a camera, or did that kind of develop alongside the livestock and the wildlife?

SPEAKER_01 36:36

I um yeah, Keith bought me a camera probably a year or two before we bought our ranch. And I was photographing whatever was in my backyard because it was there. It was easily accessible. Um when we got the longhorns and I was looking at websites, I realized that, you know, photographs were important. So I started carrying my camera with me. The only time I go out in the pasture, though, specifically to take photographs is for a sale catalog. Or if I just have to update an animal uh on the website, or I'm I'm trying to sell an animal off the website and the um the interested party wants some new photos, some recent, then I'll go out. But most of the time I just have the camera with me. And I'm sitting in the pasture with my cattle and enjoying them. And then I'll go, oh, that might look good, so I'll take a picture. But it's kind of yeah, an aside from the animals.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

So, what kind of equipment are you using? Do you have professional gear or a pretty simple set setup compared to other, you know, professionals?

SPEAKER_01 37:55

I use a Nikon D610. Um, Brett Krause actually recommended it. I love his photography. So I reached out to him and asked for some recommendations. Um, so I did upgrade my equipment after I started photographing the cattle. But no, I've never been one to be able to take a decent picture with a phone. I wish I could.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Do you like the Nikon? Did it take a while to get used to?

SPEAKER_01 38:27

It had quite a learning curve. And you know, I still don't consider myself a photographer. I don't know all the terminology. Um I just know that the equipment works for me. I couldn't even tell I do have a telephoto lens. I can't tell you anything about it except that I can zoom in and which is very important for longhorns.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

What's the hardest part about photographing cattle? I know you mentioned you typically take the pictures when you're sitting and just enjoying them. Um, but maybe let's talk a little bit about lighting and you know their body movements and stuff and and how that comes into play. Yeah, lighting is a real challenge.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

A real challenge. Um if I can't get the pictures in the first couple hours of the day, I probably won't get any pictures. Um harsh lighting and shadows really present a challenge. And I like an extremely clean photo. So when I have really prominent shadows in in the pictures, it just drives me insane. Movement. Yeah, make sure it's a flattering position. And I'm not gonna give a specific position, but just make sure that it I like it to be flattering. I don't I take a lot of pictures that are not flattering, and nobody will ever see them. Oh, but I'm always amazed to open social media and and see photos. Something else though, I think something that I was always kind of critical of when other people's photos was that they were looking down at the animal. But I realized now I'm short. So I just happened to be at the right level, I think, to take photos because you want them to kind of be, you know, at eye level. So being vertically challenged has its advantages in that respect. So a good eye-level photo rather than looking down on it, and of course, you want it to be standing in a nice, natural but flattering position. That's very important.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Well, I feel like also you're very fortunate to be located in the hill country, which has great lighting and great landscape backgrounds, and you know, keeps the I know you said you liked it to be a very clean background. The environment you're working within is also very beautiful, so that helps.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

It it does. It does. Yes, and and I don't I don't like cluttered backgrounds at all. Um I don't even really like group shots, to be honest. If there's maybe two animals in it, or uh I obviously a a mother and its calf always works, but group photos just never work well. Clutter, whether it be other animals, whether it be old gates that you've got leaning up against something in the background, anything that draws your attention away from the subject, you know, is is just something to avoid.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Even even like telephone polls or you know that sort of stuff, even though they seem minimal in the background, you'll you'll notice them right away, I feel like. I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

And I hate to admit it, but I might remove those. I try not to edit my photos. Um, but occasionally, yes, it's necessary, especially for my website. When I want a good clean photo to put on there, yes, if there's a power line in the background or you know, something, a cow's head or something, you know, I might make those disappear. Um, but yeah, you just especially for the website, you want you want the people to focus on that animal.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

So do you have a different approach or different advice? Uh like I know you mentioned you you'll go out to take sale catalog photos specifically for that reason at a different time or you know, not when you're just sitting and enjoying them. Is there a different approach then that you take or different advice that you have for those types of photos? Boy, those are tough.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Um yes, my advice is take a hundred thousand pictures, just keep on taking, you know. I'll go out for uh I may try for days at a time and just take picture after picture after picture until I get the right one. And I know we've all seen unfortunate catalog photos. Sometimes it's unavoidable. Some animals are just really difficult to photograph. Uh, I had one where I had to resort to um my phone and take a video of it and then use a still shot from that in order to get it. Um, but just keep trying, you know, when it's a catalog photo, because that's what people are going to be looking at for usually at least a month in advance. And not everybody can tune in live to watch the sale. So, you know, or it might be too late if you wait until one or two days before the sale to finally get an updated photo. I've dealt with that before too. It's still better than nothing. But yeah, just try, try, try. That's that's my best advice for getting a sale catalog photo.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Do you feel like having a photographer's eye has changed how you evaluate your own cattle? Like when you're looking through the lens, do you see confirmation or movement differently? I do.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

I see things, and that's really surprised me. I do see things differently through the lens. Um unfortunately, I'll see flaws that I don't see when I'm just out in the pasture with my cattle. It's funny. Um and another way that's revealed to me, and it took me a while to figure this out, is I'm trying to get the perfect shot, and I'm struggling to get a good flattering photo. And I realize it's because there's a trait that I don't want to emphasize. And if there's something I'm trying not to emphasize, then you know it's just funny that I didn't notice it before. It wasn't until I had the camera. And I'm like, oh yeah, she does have that, doesn't she? Whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

I'll never tell. Do you not like why do you think that is? What I like what what do you think is the I don't you do not you know what I mean? That's just such an odd like it makes total sense, but it is it's weird that just putting a lens on it can can make that change.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Yeah I don't know. I don't know why it it it can look so different through a lens than in in person. But I hate to hammer this but it's just so important to take flattering photos. And if a photo's too difficult for me to get I I move on unless it's a sale catalog you know shot and I have to get it um but if it doesn't come easily I I won't but I'm not gonna put I'm not going to take an unflattering photo and publish that I do have them on my computer that nobody will ever see but in my opinion if an animal has a flaw why would you why would you highlight that um that's just my thoughts on it. I've I've seen it done and and I guess maybe the people don't see it.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Not sure do you ever look at a photo and realize the animal is better or worse than you thought or has a photo changed a breeding decision?

SPEAKER_01 47:06

No this changed a breeding decision but I'll yeah I'll realize that they're not as great as I thought they were or better too right for folks who have visited your website and looked at your breeding animal photos versus your more artistic photos that you're offering for print on canvas and stuff um do you separate your approach when you're trying to get your traditional shots versus uh the candid moments that seem to make for great Instagram and everything absolutely two completely different products um for my website photos obviously I want a good you know broadside view with the legs positioned where you see all four legs the head turned looking right towards the camera I want the viewer to be able to see everything about that animal the artistic shots are more about feeling um the mood especially between a mother and and calf oh those just those melt my heart even when I'm sitting there you know and that's what I want to capture um I want to capture um the early morning stillness and gentleness yeah there's just something about cows first thing in the morning I don't know that I don't know if that makes sense but it that's what I try to capture in my photos. Most of mine are going to be morning photos.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

That's my best time in the pasture but yes completely two different completely different approaches has anyone ever asked you to come photograph their herd yeah how do we feel about that no you know I love to help people but I don't want it to seem like work you know it's just something again I don't even go out and really do it myself unless I have to and that's a chore um so no I I have done it but I I prefer not to I also feel like when it's not your own herd you know because obviously Jamie and I would um or we used to when we had more time we would help folks take pictures but I feel like when it's not your herd it's so much harder to make yourself get the traditional like website or sale catalog photos and not want to zoom in on all the moments like you just said with the mom and the calf or you know the bull and the you know his his females around and stuff it's hard to it's hard to I don't know it's it's like when you're seeing it for the first time you want to get all those gentle moments not just the here's your website photo. Yeah not not the textbook yeah yeah right no I agree. So for someone at home in a pasture full of longhorns who wants to start taking better pictures of their animals what's the best piece of advice you can give them to help improve their shots well I think we've already touched on that and I would say watch the background you know you don't have to have a hill country background but just be aware of what's behind the animal um I know there's a lot of things that might accumulate around a barn but you know you don't want people to see all that you want the animal to be the the main focus. So no distractions just limit the distractions well let's talk a little bit about the canvases that you offer for sale of your photography walk me through how that started maybe tell me about your first customers or what surprised you the most about offering you know livestock photography as fine art.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Yeah that was something totally unexpected um you know I I post the photos to market my breeding program. That was the only thing that I was doing. And then I had a couple friends reach out and say hey will you send me um that photo in larger resolution so that I can put it on canvas and I'm like sure no problem and then I had some people reach out to me on Instagram also and ask I mean not livestock people just people that enjoyed the artistic stuff and asked and so I said well you know if there's any kind of demand for it maybe I ought to just give it a try. And so I with y'all's help I I added a page on my website and you know it's it's kind of a I don't know how to say this it's just an offshoot of the of the cattle and something that I'm gonna do anyway take pictures to market my herd.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

So we have another customer um up in the northern states that does it does a similar thing but she's marketed her few photos more to like um hotels or restaurants or interior designers in that regard have you ever had any inquiries for like a mass you know a mass order that would kind of brand a a hotel or a restaurant in that way I have not um I've actually thought about asking some of the stores here in town if I could hang my canvases there.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

That's next on my list. I have not done that but that would probably be the next logical step for me. There are some because we're kind of in cowboy country out here um you go into any store and there's a lot of longhorn paintings and things like that. So I would love to see my my photographs maybe get into those areas.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Do you have any stories about folks who have become longhorn breeders because they saw your art or were interested in your art and then you know maybe met you or came out to the ranch or got started in that regard?

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Well not breeders but um I I do have a a new friend that I met through Instagram because she loved my pictures and asked if she could come out to the ranch. She came out to the ranch and now she owns three of three steers that I raised and she posts them on Instagram and sends me pictures I absolutely love it. So yeah it it does open some doors and she has bought several canvas um pictures from me also thanks well let's talk a little bit about your hired hand website I know we've touched on it a few times with some of the the answers and the questions but how long have you had your uh hired hand site do you remember about 10 years yeah okay I cheated I looked it up we'll let it slide how do you feel like it has evolved over the years I know we've done at least one redesign on it right I was trying to remember yeah we did one big you know pretty major redesign on it and um at some point I added frames around my photos um just to make it stand out I guess I don't mean the I mean on the page you know just so that it was more visually appealing um and easier to see the animal um that's the main thing and then of course I added uh with y'all's help the canvas art uh the mounts also I don't know if it's on there right now but I've I've had uh semen sales page also so I I add and and remove things as you know I'm constantly changing it.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Do you enjoy that?

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Do you enjoy that you can update it all on your own and keep it keep it active very much so uh I wish I had more time to spend on it it kind of um my availability changes quite a bit so when I have free time yes I love to get in there and really play around with it now when I was the administrator for the Gulf Coast Association webpage I was able to do quite a lot there as well um but yeah it's just so easy to update and kind of rearrange the pages you know like I added um steers so I have bulls and steers or bull prospects on the same page you know you there are different sections of a page and yeah so that it's nice you can change things around it's fairly easy to do.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Do you have a favorite feature that you like whether it be something that you implement on the front end for your site visitors or something that you use on the back end for administrative tasks?

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Um I like being able to sort when I'm updating I like to be able to sort on categories so then I can very easily see all of my heifers and update each of their pictures or measurements or whatever. I love the linked pedigrees um that's something that helped me so much early on in my journey into Longhorns. You know I I spent so much time looking at websites and um that's something that I think is just invaluable to the breed. And there's something else that y'all do that I don't hear people talk about often enough the search function that you have not on the specific website but I think it's hired hand software slash search I believe where you can search all websites for all progeny from this animal or this cow or whatever. I find that extremely useful I I use that a whole lot and especially when I'm searching for a bull or something um yeah I love that. And I just like I said I don't hear people talk about that nearly enough it's it's a great tool.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Yeah we try we try to we've tried over the years to promote it and explain it in different ways but unless you've actually used it I feel like it's hard for folks to grasp like how it works because you can search by state price tip to tip sire dam like you said um so I feel like you have to go use it to understand what actually it's all pulling from yeah that's very true the horn length age that's right those are all things that I used.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Well it's good it's good to hear you're using it.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

So you have your own site set up so that not everything is for sale or not everything is listed as in in a sale pen or with a sale price on it. So visitors can clearly see the difference between what you consider your keeper herd and your sale pen.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Talk to me a little bit about that decision and how it's worked for you as a sales tool well I like to have and I don't have my complete herd on there but I have the majority of my foundation herd visible so that people can see what I'm breeding from you know where they I may have heifers for sale I'll post calf pictures but I want them to be able to see the dams and and what my foundation herd is. Occasionally I'll have somebody reach out and ask if I'd be willing to sell one it depends on who it is but that's not an animal that I want to sell you know but I do you know like I said I I have a cell pen and there are certain animals that were produced with the thought that you know they're gonna be sold. So yeah there are two different you know two different groups there.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

And you also have a sold pending page where you thank your past customers by name um and that's not something that every breeder you know thinks to do why is that important to you I just like recognizing people and everybody likes to see and hear their name you know um and every animal I sell I develop a relationship with the buyer you know they become friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

I may not talk to them on a regular basis but there are people I've sold animals to you know years ago that I'm still in touch with and it just it's just a personal thing you know even when I talk to people a lot of times I use their name so yeah they're it's a relationship building what's your biggest pet peeve when visiting other breeders websites that they're not updated I I figured I figured it was gonna be a toss up between that and bad pictures.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

I was wondering which one you'd pick well yeah yeah they're pretty equal all right so we're gonna are you up for a little game here related to your animals and your photography? Sure. Okay so I pulled a few of my favorite photos from your site and I want to walk through them one at a time and have you tell me the story behind each one like what was happening that day what made you grab the camera how many tries it took so for folks listening they can they can go check these uh photos that we're about to talk about on Kathy's Longhorn art page on her website so the cow and calf the nuzzle shot what's the story there that was a long-awaited calf and out of one of my very best cows and I was so tickled I was sitting out there in my buggy just watching just watching the interaction between the mother and calf which is something I absolutely enjoy doing always and I just started shooting um I took several pictures it's funny that has become my absolute favorite picture I've sold many copies of it I've donated some to silent auctions and they usually do pretty well but um yeah I just happened to be sitting there watching my two favorite animals at the time and and that unfolded in front of me. The next one I really liked is of a longhorn cow full broadside with the hill country backdrop. I feel like this one looks like a textbook longhorn photo um how much time did you spend getting that shot and did she cooperate for you or did you have to wait her out I never wait them out.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

I'm too impatient Molly no she just happened to do the right thing at the at the right time yeah well the other one I picked out was the red deer stag photo tell me about that one um I was literally driving through a wooded pasture and looked over and saw him and so I stopped and surprisingly he didn't run off wildlife and there's a big difference between photographing longhorns and wildlife but he actually stood there long enough for me to snap the photo and I was absolutely tickled I always consider wildlife shots a a bonus um so yeah that was just being in the right place at the right time so now the one the one you mentioned at the beginning of today's episode that you took from your front porch recently of the what did you say it was a mule deer?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

No it was a red stack.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Are we gonna see that one on that page soon you think I don't know I haven't had a chance to review the photos you know something I'd I would like to mention that came out of the uh the foot photography also something I never anticipated I've had artists contact me um mainly off of Instagram and ask if they can paint or draw my photographs and I love that I thought I always say yes as long as they show me the finished product and I have gotten just the coolest like sketches and one of them was of a red stag. There's a lady in Friendswood Texas and I've completely drawn a blank on the name of her business um she'll take my photos and paint them onto furniture like a wooden bench or on a wooden door or something and it's really cool. I it is so rewarding to be flipping through Instagram and see a photograph that I took painted onto some kind of home decor I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

Now are you buying all those items back like you buy your cows back? I haven't but I'm building a house so I might there you go the decorating's done right yeah yeah well I have one more game set up for us today and it's called Photographers This or that so this is no overthinking I'm gonna give you two choices and you just have to pick one okay okay golden hour or blue hour golden color or black and white for longhorn prints oh color landscape orientation or portrait landscape almost always plan shot or happy accident they're all happy accident still or in motion still photograph of a calf or photograph of a mature cow and no you can't pick combo you have to pick one oh gosh that's that's a hard one I don't know I love them both Molly I'm gonna say mature cow then what's your favorite month in the hill country for lighting probably may because it gets light early actually and uh yeah I would say May one lens for the rest of your life wide angle or telephoto telephoto where do you see the that that's that's all with those questions. I don't want to limit you to one word answers for this next question. Okay. Where do you see the photography and art side of your business going? Are you gonna keep growing it?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

Is it going to be secondary to the cattle I think it'll always be secondary to the cattle um I'm tickled that that it's happened um but breeding is is my top priority so where do you see double K longhorns in five years? Ooh I don't know I hope thriving um I I hope to just keep doing what I'm doing. I I I hope to still be producing females that people want to add to their herds. Um I want to do it as long as I'm physically capable of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

So we'll see it's been a fun journey well thank you so much for joining me today I hope our listeners enjoyed this visit to Double K Longhorns and learned something new about the world of Longhorns and photography. You can find Kathy's website and her socials in our show notes and until next time remember to appreciate the pastures you roam and the traditions that make them special. Thanks Kathy. Thank you Molly