SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi there, I'm Molly. And I'm Jamie. We're the owners of Hired Hand Software. And this is season six of our From the Pasture podcast. For more than 15 years, we've been helping breeders promote their pedigree livestock with our easy-to-use, animal management-driven website software. Each week, we bring you stories from the pasture, breeding philosophies, ranch traditions, cattle knowledge, and conversation with folks using Hired Hand to power their livestock marketing. So settle in for today's episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand. Hi, and welcome to this episode of From the Pasture with Hired Hand. Today we're visiting the beautiful pastures of Blue Duck Farm in New Olm, Texas, home to a growing herd of registered Texas Longhorns built on five generations of cattle heritage. I'm your host, Molly Clubb, and I'm excited to take you on another journey into the world of Texas Longhorns and the breeders who care for them with today's guest, Scott Kinsel. Thanks for joining me today, Scott.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Absolutely. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Well, let's just get right into it. And why don't you start by just telling us a little bit about yourself as well as Blue Duck Farm?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, my name is Scott Kinsel. I um I am I live in Houston with my family, my wife Angie. I have three kids, 17, 16, and 10. And Blue Duck Farm is honestly our way to just get out of the city and decompress a little bit. So that's why we have it and that's what we use it for.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

How far away or how long of a drive is it to make it to the ranch on a weekend?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

You know, Houston, it's uh unpredictable, but if everything is working as it should on the highway system, it's one hour door-to-door.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Okay. And how long have you had the ranch that it's been your your escape?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

So we bought it probably a year and a half ago. And it was a really overgrown, neglected piece of property. So it's there's been a lot of um, a lot of work done on the property since we bought it.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Well, I'm sure we'll we'll dig into that a little bit deeper, but why don't you tell us next? So I understand that you're a fifth generation cattleman, but you're the first in your family to focus on Texas longhorns. So tell me a little bit about um maybe the feedback you got from previous generations when you made that decision or what pulled you towards longhorns specifically.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So, you know, the the Kensel family has been in commercial herds for a long time in Texas, South Texas. Um, and my dad lived in Beaumont, but lived outside of the town, and he raised show steers. And so when I was a teenager, I was around that world quite a bit. Um, but kind of more relevant to Longhorns, every single person in my family, my brothers, my parents, stepmom, everybody went to the University of Texas. So it's in our blood. And um, you know, when I got this piece of property, I wasn't really sure which direction I was gonna go. But I was driving out one day and I see this pasture full of these beautiful longhorns. And I was like, that's it. That's what I got to do. So I found the name of the person that owned those, and it ended up being Jeremy James with three J Longhorns. He's literally my next door neighbor.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

And uh, so that kind of that kind of started the whole addiction.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

So tell me a little bit about those first few. Did you did you get them from Jeremy? Did he just give you some advice and you you found them elsewhere? How did you start building the herd?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So he uh Jeremy's a wonderful person, and he has he has been uh my mentor in this process. But he uh we just started talking about Longhorns, and I was looking at his and he was like, Well, there's a sale coming up that you should probably go to, and it was uh the Glenn Denning sale, the Fiesta sale. And uh kind of the poetry there is the first business I ever bought, I bought from Red McCombs 20 years ago. And so it just made a lot of sense to go to that sale and buy a few animals. The only problem was is that I didn't have any fences. So um I might be the first person to buy longhorns before having a place to actually keep them. So that was a bit of a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Surprisingly, I think maybe you're the third or fourth person on a podcast that, you know, we've had a we've had some folks that didn't have a trailer, didn't have a shoot, but we have had a few that haven't had a fence. So not not the first one on the podcast, at least.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Good to hear. Good to hear.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

So how did you solve that problem? Did you immediately get to work after you purchased them, or tell me about that journey?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

The work was ongoing, but because Jeremy was so close, I just I put them over at Jeremy's place until uh my place was ready. And then we we brought them on over.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

So those first few you purchased at the Glen Denning sale, was it strictly off of just what your heart told you? You liked the look of? Did you do some research, try to, you know, try to figure out a base for your program? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Well, if you've seen me at a sale, you you know I am always behind like my laptop. So I'm a fairly data-driven person. And I didn't really know what data I was supposed to be looking at at that first sale, but I certainly had a lot of it. Um and so I had my eye on a few different animals. Um, one was a heifer uh Ray Webb had in there, which I bought. And then the other was a 50-50 daughter uh from Nathan Jones. And so those are the two I bought.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

So are you willing to share with the our listeners what the why the why those, what the data was telling you about those, or is that uh is that top secret information?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

No, I at the time, maybe now the data I use, but back then it was just um a bad mix of AI and internet searches and uh historical sales data, stuff like that. Um and the 50-50 daughter jungle cat, she was right after an animal that was a six-figure animal. So there was that natural kind of lull in the sale. And um I think it was a a bargain, a a goodbye. And so that that one uh I feel really good about that one. I've had multiple people try to buy that cow from me since since that sale.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

So she's still with you today.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

She is, yeah. Yeah. And she's never gone anywhere. I know people say that a lot, but like she's never going anywhere. She's she's a keeper.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

So you didn't have fences, but you had a few cows. When did the name come? When did you come up with Blue Dog Farm?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

So that was well before I had cows.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Um, you know, like kids these days they run around with the Harry Potter books, like young kids. It seems like that's the thing. Well, when I was little, I ran around with Lonesome Dove in that series. Um and so Blue Duck is a character in that series, uh, Larry McMurtry series, Lonesome Dove. And then when I saw this property for the first time, there were some blue wing teal out on the pond. So it just, you know, kind of all started to come together. And then from a marketing standpoint, um it also I think is pretty, pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

It's easy to remember.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, I can recall when you when you first were kind of purchasing your first first view and becoming our customer, we had a lot of discussions around you you were asking for a lot of our opinions on the logo itself and the name and everything, and kind of going back and forth, I know, between is it bad that it doesn't say longhorns or bad that it doesn't have and and I think you I'm glad you stuck with it because I think it does differentiate you very well.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah, yeah. And it's you know, like that's a like I'm a creative person, and that was a really fun part of this. Like the logo, the name, the merchandise, the hats, the shirts, all that stuff, and then ultimately the brand. Um, that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed that. And I would encourage anybody starting out in this, like, take your time in that process because kind of the fun part.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

That's your brand. So commit to it.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

How much? So you mentioned that you use AI for some of your data and your research. How much of AI went into your your brand and your your logo development and and that sort of strategy?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Zero. I drew it on a napkin.

unknown 8:49

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I love it. I was drinking a beer on the back porch one night, and uh again, I'm a some I'm a creative person, or at least I used to be. And so I just started drawing and got to the one that I like.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

So you've told us a little bit about how you and Angie started this as a way to kind of escape the city life for your for your family. What do your weekends look like now? How do they look different than they did before? Or maybe it's not just your weekends, maybe it's your, you know, your holidays, your vacations, that type of stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

You know, it's um this is just an outlet for us. So my day job is fairly stressful. Um, and I can a lot of Teams calls and that kind of stuff. So I can get out to the farm within an hour, leave the house at six, make sunrise, work for five or six hours out here with ranch work in between, and then go home before they get home. Kids get home from school. So it that's a really the best use case for me right now is just work out here. Uh, but kids on the weekends or during the summer, um, you know, getting them out of that pressured cooker Houston, Texas city life and out here where they can just de-stress, put the devices down, go make mistakes without much consequence. Um it's just been really good. It's really good for them.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Do each of them have kind of a different favorite part or a path that you see them going down related to the ranch or the cattle?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

My kids seem to love speed. So when they get out here, it's get to the vehicles as quickly as possible and go as fast as they possibly can. So um yeah, it's a little uh stressful, but they just love the freedom of getting in the Polaris or tractor or truck or whatever it may be and just taking off.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Well, on your website, you describe your cattle as sweet and beautiful longhorns. So walk me through what that means for your breeding program, what traits you're prioritizing, how you would rank them, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah, I've heard so many times on your podcasts, people say kind of, you know, when you start out, you just start buying things and it's not very intentional, it's more reactive. Um, and I was similar, but ultimately you kind of figure out what you like. And sometimes you just gotta buy and sell some cows to figure that out, see them in your pasture, stare at them a lot. And uh for me, you know, in this business we're in or hobby, wherever you, whatever your angle is here, people are paying five, six figures for these animals. And so I just don't think there's much room for an animal with a bad temperament or bad confirmation or bad, you know, milking or whatever it may be. I just so I don't I'm pretty aggressive in culling if I see anything like that. Uh it's a smaller herd. I don't want to sell anything or own anything that could hurt somebody or pass on some bad trait. So I'm pretty aggressive on that. So those are givens for me. Um away from that, it's more color and horn, and specifically twist. Um, that's just as I look at my herd, like the twist is something I'm I'm really drawn to. Um and then kind of the last piece for me is look, everybody loves tip to tip, and the industry has changed. I've heard y'all talk the numbers, what the average tip to tip was 10 years ago. It's wild how fast it's it's grown. But to me, it's just a balance, right? You can have a cow with 85 inches tip to tip on a smaller frame and beautiful color, and that's perfection. Uh, you can also have a bigger body cow, 100 inches tip to tip, and that's perfection because it's balanced, it's aesthetically uh pleasing to look at. So the tip to tip for me, obviously it's important in our industry, but it's important, it's kind of secondary for me.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

It's more color and twist. I love twist.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Well, you mentioned that you have a smaller herd. So what does what does your herd look like right now? How many head? Maybe what's the breakdown between your foundation cat cows and your, you know, your up-and-comers, your herd sires?

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah, so I think total animals probably 40 something. Um and kind of what I've tried to do is acquire some really solid, kind of known cows with a history of production uh as my foundation animals. And then I'm watching some heifers um that I think will make it into that group as well. And then, you know, going back a little bit, I think every new breeder has to make one very important decision, and is that in that and the decision is do they want to own a bull? Um, I think your program that changes the direction of your program or how you manage it. At least it did for me. I had zero luck with AI. I mean, zero, like 0 for 17. So I bought a bull from Randy Murray. Um, and I realized as soon as he got here, I was like, that's what I like. I need bulls on my property. Uh giant, you know, baton, you know, wild sweptback horns, uh, super sweet. And it it was like, okay, I know what I need to do now. I need to get the best group of cows I can get, put my bull on them, see what works, bring in another bull, try with, you know, the other cows and see what works, and continue to try to find that magic um pairing, kind of like a 50-50 and a justifier, whatever, just through, you know, all those great pairings and try to figure that out on my own with my own herd sirs and my herd.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

What made you go towards AI first before you tried your own bull? Tell me, like, tell me a little bit about maybe the lessons learned or what what made you think you had to go there initially.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

You know, I kind of got uh pedigree drunk. You know, you start to look at them all and you're like, wait, I can get access to that bull and via AI. And so you kind of it just opens up this whole world, and you and it's uh to me, it's a strategy kind of based on hope, right? You have this bull out there with all this production history, and it's like, wait, I just gotta get that bull and put it on my cow and rock and roll, and it doesn't really work that way. Um so I mean, for me, it's about controlling the variables, right? And if if I have the same group of cows on one bull, I've controlled some of the variable and find out what works, call what doesn't, bring in another bull and just keep going. I I learned Randy and I talk a lot, and I think he has a on a much larger scale and many more herd sires, I think that's kind of what he's doing.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

So, how far down the road are you planning right now, generations-wise, with the the bulls that you know you want to try out and bring in in the next cycle, in the next cycle?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So I have Jan Rex, the herd sire. I just brought in Bam Bam, a formal attire son, and then I have a junior herd sire out of Cool Han Luke. So I guess I'm three herd sires, is where I am.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

And are there any early indications of if your your gut did you right and you you know you have the right pairings and everything? Anything on the ground yet you're encouraged about?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

So I've got so Jamin Rex has uh some progeny on the ground outside of my place.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

And I've bought some back uh that I now own. And yeah, he he's doing exactly what we hoped he would do. Uh big bodies, horn direction going the right way. Everything's got color. So unfortunately, the first four that landed on my place were were bulls. Um so we'll see about those. But the last two were were girls. So I'm and they're beautiful, big, um, colored up. So yeah, so I'm I'm really excited. And I've got probably got eight more that are due here in the next 30 days.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

So, you know, a lot of a lot of folks get down and out when they have that many bulls right off the bat. What's your what's your strategy? Like, how long are you going to watch them before you determine if they're maybe a future herd sire down the road or if you're gonna steer them out or that sort of stuff?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

You know, I I'm so new to this that I don't have the wisdom yet to say that's a herdsire and that's not. So I'm gonna have to rely on Jeremy and Randy to kind of help me through that process.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

There is on paper, um, there's one that it's out of that um cut and dry daughter I bought on your site.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Uh, she's gonna be 80 at three.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Uh that one's probably one to watch, but I just it's not a skill set I have yet. I'm gonna need some help there.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Who's your favorite female in your pasture right now and what makes her special?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

So I have a Dale Hunt bred cow named Whiskey. Uh I post about her too often, but she is absolutely gorgeous. Uh, I've been to a lot of sales, I've seen a lot of cows, and she is on a whole different level. Um, I actually bought her from Randy, and I I can't believe he sold her to me, quite honestly. But she's just beautiful. Twisty, you know, lateral, twisty horns, uh very feminine, like the most feminine cow I've seen. So she again, she's another one. I think I have her listed for sale on my site for five million. Um so she's never going anywhere. Um she's never saying ever. Yeah, that's a good point. But uh I need to get a heifer out of her first.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

And then Well, you've mentioned a few times now how much you love Twist. Um, just talk to me a little bit about wh why you're drawn to it. Maybe if there's some iconic females in the industry that you would rank as, you know, your all-time favorites when it comes to their horn set. Uh anything you've learned about it that, you know, our listeners might find interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

You know, like when y'all scroll all of your sites and you're looking at progeny, right? And there's like that hesitation. It's like scrolling social media and the algorithm's like, wait, he looked at that for three seconds and not one second. That's what twist does to me. It's like as soon as I see twist, I stop and I stare. Um, it went in the pasture, at sales, online, wherever. And so, like Jaguar Laura is a cow that had been on my radar for so long. Um, and you know, again, um, Randy, I forget which sale that was, but I was not there. I was online, and I think you know how that story went. I ended up buying her after the sale was over. But she is her horn set to me is perfection. I think she'll be a hundred inches at some point, tip to tip. Uh just straight out lateral twist, and it's just so fun. So fun.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

So if we were to fast forward maybe five, 10, I know twist takes a while, so maybe 20 years down the road. Is that what you're hoping your pasture is just full of? Is those exquisitely twisting, big-bodied females?

SPEAKER_01 22:29

You know, that's uh yeah. I mean, I want a little variation. Um, but again, that's what I'm drawn to. And that's hopefully where but that's such a hard, you know, it's again, I've listened to so many of your podcasts, but it it's so hard to predict outcomes and in breeding. And um, you know, to get a herd full of tight lateral twists, I'm gonna have to be pretty aggressive in calling, which I will be.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Um, but yeah, that's that's what I'm breeding for.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Well, I know you've mentioned some things that you're not afraid to admit that you maybe need advice on or think that you need to learn more about. Uh what like what would you say your biggest Challenges have been in building your program, even though you're fairly new, or are there other ways that you plan to work through those challenges besides just, you know, uh relying on the folks who you get advice from?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

I mean, the biggest challenge for me is I don't live here. Um, so I'm an hour away. So, you know, in a pinch, if I'm not here, you know, I've got to rely on other people. So that's, you know, I I have a good network of people in a ranch hand now that's here every day. So that I solved that problem. But that was a little scary there for a little while with nobody on the property during the day. Um, the other thing is just the because this piece of property was basically a blank slate, laying out pastures and fences and lanes and working pens and water troughs, like there's a real art to that. And I got close to getting it right, but I realized that working the cows and the pens, I just didn't have a system, it wasn't maximized for efficient efficiency to get the cows into the pens. And so I've since kind of changed the layout and added some lanes and stuff like that to make it easier. But that can make it really frustrating if you can't, if you want to work your cows and it's really hard to get them into the pens. So I would say to any new breeder, and this is stuff that I'm sure everybody knows, but you know, measure twice, cut once on your pen layout, pasture layout.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Great advice. What trends are you seeing in the longhorn market right now? And are you letting them shape your decisions at all? I know that pens, pens and working systems can kind of be a trend in themselves. So sorry to jump around there.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah, no, I um it's hard for me to stay up with the trends. I I don't really have that much knowledge. I see what's what's bringing top dollar at sales, and there are some common themes there. But for me, this is I'm not, this is not my business. Um, this is uh a hobby and a tax strategy and some of some of that stuff. So I'm not building my herd around what's bringing top dollar at sales in the moment or what's the trendiest in the moment. I know black was a real popular, maybe it still is. Um so I just don't know. I don't know the trends. And when you commit to your herd sires, the trends are irrelevant at that point. Like I have my females, I have my males, and let's see what they can do. And pivot if I'm not getting the results I want, or go all in if I if I am. So that's kind of where I am. Uh my strategy is kind of locked in irregardless of what the marketplace is doing.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

You know, I'm I'm probably gonna mess this up because I didn't put it in the notes. I just thought of it while you were talking. But we've been looking at a lot of we we ask a question every Friday on social media, and we've been looking at a lot of the answers that we've been getting to see if we can notice any trends in there that would be a good topic for a podcast or a blog article uh article or something. And one of the repeating themes goes something like regarding trends that if you're not the breeder setting the trend, then you're already behind. Just like with the stock market or trading or, you know, anything like that, that you have to be careful getting into trends because if you're not the one setting it, essentially, then you know, you're you might already be losing.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you you've you've already missed it. I think fashion, I think fashion would be a great example of that.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Yes. Yes, perfect example, right? And then you just got to wait for it to come back around, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

That's right. Vintage.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yep. Well, let's let's shift gears and talk a little bit about your website, um, mostly as a segue, because I'm excited to talk about your your horn predictor tool that you that you have and some of the unique pages on your website. But um I know you came to us uh fairly quickly. You know, you your your herd was growing as your website was growing. So just tell our listeners a little bit about maybe how long you had your site, what made you decide to to pull the trigger early on.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Well, so um oddly enough, the first cow that I went after was owned by Ross.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

This was like before I'd even closed on my property, to be honest with you. And Ross and I started talking, and uh and then when I started talking to Jeremy and Randy, I saw their platforms, and it was like this disconnect between Ross's site and the other ones, and I was like, what is happening here? And so then I kind of realized uh the platform that y'all had built, and um Jeremy and I would send stuff back and forth, and then you know, I was consuming information as fast as I possibly could through y'all's platform. I mean, it's just you've you've made it so easy for new breeders to get to a certain level of competence on genetics and pairings and you know, all of that stuff. So it it really suits my personality, uh, the data-driven platform that you guys have built.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

So you were responsible for those traffic spikes in Houston that we would see.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

No comment.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Uh what's your favorite feature of hired hand of your website or or on the back end, and has it affected the way that you run your operation at all?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

I mean, you know, I'm a photographer, so the one, the ability to just upload photos whenever I want is amazing. Uh y'all have recently in the last year taken down the megabyte file size restriction so that it'll just push anything through, which was amazing because I shoot raw, and so it was I'd have to go resize. So that's amazing. Thank you for that. Um, and then the videos, I think as much as I love photography, I think videos are very important. Uh, like I see in a lot of these the sales you're doing, people are leading with a video, which is really helpful if you're not gonna be able to see the cow in person. Um but oh, and you know this. My favorite is the pedigree predictor. Um again, visually, I just like to see on paper what the future pairings look like. Um so yeah, I would say those features.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

What would you say to any breeders who are maybe on the fence about if they're ready for a website yet in regards to their newer program or their growing herd?

SPEAKER_01 30:25

I mean, this is such a small community that I think it's the single most effective way to just get swept up in it is to have the website because, you know, people are just clicking and clicking and clicking, and they're gonna get to your site at some point. Uh and it's also great when you're on Facebook to be able to link back to your site. Uh it just to me, the website is kind of the anchor for being in this longhorn community. It's where people can understand what you're doing, why you're doing it, and where you're going.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Well, one thing you mentioned that you like is the pedigree simulator tool. And we were super excited to see how you're actually kind of implementing that on the front end of your site with your next generation page. So maybe for folks who, you know, haven't used the pedigree simulator before or don't understand how you're using it on your next generation page, just lay that all out for us.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yeah. So for me, again, I'm I'm not Randy Murray. I can't just in my head like visualize pedigrees when I'm looking at two animals. I need to kind of work that out visually so I can see it and kind of click through uh each bloodline. And so that it's just amazing to take your cow and your herd sire or AI, whatever you're choosing to do, and just see on paper what it looks like because a lot of people start there in their research. It's like, what's the damn line? And they kind of so for me, so I took that maybe a step further and created a page on my site that just shows what the future stuff, what's coming, what's in the oven. And I try to create a a tile that has the sire on top and the dam on bottom so people can see exactly what baby's coming. And I think it's just telling the industry and and other breeders kind of what I'm doing and where the program is headed. And um like I would there's a lot of breeders out there. I would love to see that same thing. I would love to know, and I know they're not gonna do it because it's a little more um bigger operation, it's probably hard to manage, but I would love to know what some breeders have planned. Um, because a lot of these bigger breeders, they are setting the trends. And so if you can see what their future pairings are, it would be pretty interesting. But that's the that's the reason I do it. I just I'd like to, again, I'm not in this to this is not uh my primary business, and so I have no problem telling other breeders what I'm doing with my herd and what pairings I'm I'm looking forward to.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Have you gotten any feedback on the pairings that you have listed or that page in general?

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I have, yeah. Um and usually it's there's two or three cows in my herd that generate a lot of interest.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

And it's it's those pairings that people are interested in it. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Interested because they're excited or because they have input on what they uh, you know, a combination they think you should try, or what type of interest are they showing?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

We'll be watching. If it's a heifer, we might be, you know, emailing you again, you know, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Nice. Well, also on your website is a horn prediction tool. Uh so tell us a little bit about how that works, um, how accurate maybe it's been for your for your own herd, if it's changed the way you thought about some of your evaluations and breeding decisions.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

You know, so there was there's another horn tool out there. And um I don't know if people know that. I don't know how many people use it, but I used it early on, um, especially with heifers like two-year-olds or younger that I was looking at in in sales, just to try to understand where they would end up if the horns kept going the right direction. And you know, one thing uh when I dug into the methodology behind that horn tool, um it was primarily based on data from the 90s and growth trends, horn growth trends from the 90s. And you know better than anybody, those that math has changed. Um horns are growing longer, and um, you know, the the data points now are so different than they were 20 years ago. So I wanted to try to take the foundation of that tool and incorporate modern measurements to get more accurate predictions. I think like the old tool, it showed that uh and and I I wrote this down because that I was not aware of this, but under the old tool, a yearling heifer was 43% um of horn maturity. And now the data shows that they're 36% of horn maturity. So there's just again, so I that was the point of the tool is one, I wanted it on my site because so I could just click back and forth and I didn't have to go somewhere else. Um, and then two, I just felt like there was an opportunity to update the data set that the tool was using. Um, and I'm gonna keep doing it. And so obviously the caveat here is it's it's a predictor, right? If the horns start going straight up, then your math isn't gonna math. Um, so I think you have to take it with a grain of salt. But if you've got a cow with horns going straight out, I think it could be a useful tool to predict where they hopefully will end up.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yeah, for those of us that have been around for a long time, the the doll good predictor that you're referring to, you know, there was a lot of there was a lot of curiosity about it when it first came out. But like you've alluded to today, you know, you might have a heifer whose horns are going straight back versus straight out. So how accurate is some of that going to be? Um, when we've thought about if we should incorporate anything like that into the back end of higher hand for folks to use, you know, then we start I think our brains work very similar in terms of the the data, the usage. You know, then you start thinking about things like how do nutrition and environment and you know, those sorts of things also affect the the data points that you're gonna get and how seriously are people gonna rely on those versus also just visually um appraising the animal to see, you know, if what if one of those is out of whack. Um, so it's it's all very interesting, but I love that you're I love what you're the data you mentioned of the, you know, the percentage of the 90s versus today, how that's changed. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's it's certainly not a crystal ball, but I use it just as a baseline to understand where an animal is and where they could be if the horn set kind of goes the direction I need it to go.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

No, I probab I probably know the answer to this, and I don't know if it's something you're gonna want to share, but um, are you looking at analytics for that page? Are other people using it too? Maybe not um, you know, saying they're using it, but are they going and uh and seeing how it's affecting their herd?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

So I have not actually looked at the analytics of the tool page. I will at some point. Uh I don't really promote it. Uh it really was, I just did it for me. And I do think people use it, but you know, I I mean, if it's useful to somebody, like, great. If not, it doesn't matter. Um, I know the Longhorn industry, like, people consume data as fast as they can via y'all's websites. And so I just figured it was one more tool that they could, you know, potentially use and get excited about or use for marketing or, you know, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Well, maybe wait to check the analytics until after the podcast airs, and then we'll see if you see, see if you see any increases at all. Hopefully, hopefully uh folks will go check it out and and start to put it to use for them too.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Another thing that you do on your website that I feel like sets you apart a little bit is you're not afraid to use emojis. Uh, I feel like your emoji use gives it a real personality. Was that intentional? Did it evolve? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Well, so the blue duck, the the circle and the duck, when I would type blue duck, you know how it tells you, like it suggests those things? And I was like, well, that's a lot easier. And so I just started using those two emojis, the blue circle and the duck. Again, I think from a marketing perspective, it it kind of visual. And so I think a little more impactful. Um, I try not to overuse the emojis, but if I got a cow with the name Rose or a cow with the name Jaguar or a cow with the name Whiskey, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna see an emoji next to her name.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I like it. I like it. I think it's it's a great uh differentiator for sure. Well, you casually mentioned uh in one of our conversations that you were a photographer, which I feel like is drastically uh understating your your portfolio and your capabilities. Uh so if folks have followed your site or on social media, they know that you do a great job of uh longhorn photos, but tell us a little bit more about how you're you're basically also a professional is it would the term be professional hobby photographer or just professional photographer?

SPEAKER_01 40:15

I don't know. Whatever. I'm an enthusiast. How about that? I love it. I've been doing it my whole, I've been doing it my whole life, uh, ever since high school. And, you know, in the last probably 15 years, it turned into kind of adventure travel slash photography with a focus on like big cats and polar bears and sharks and all that stuff. And so it's it's um just these expeditions I like to go on. And um yeah, it's I have all the gear to take longhorn photographs, but it's definitely a different skill set for sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Well, tell me a little bit about that, because the one when I was researching for this podcast, the one picture that will always stay with me of yours, you must you had to have been underwater. I think it was of a whale or a shark or something. It was just breathtaking. Um, so I'm I'm picturing, you know, you being able to do that. But then it sounds like maybe you struggle a little bit with the with getting a cow to stand the way you want.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

So that was a uh that was a great white. And the thing about photographing great whites is just getting that close and getting a photo, you're gonna get a reaction from your viewer. With a long horn, what I'm starting to realize, and there's a lot of great photographers in this space that I'm, you know, I admire and look at their work, it's little things, right? It's it's are you standing? Are you kneeling? Are there horns? And this this is one that to this day plagues me. Are there horns like for some reason for the first six months, the horns would always be right on the horizon, and you couldn't differentiate the horn between the sky and the trees and all that. So it there's uh there's these little things you have to always have in your head when you're photographing longhorns. Their feet, their back, uh, you know, the direction of their head, and then their horns relative to the sky. You gotta make sure there's something solid behind their horns so that you can see the actual shape of them. Um, so and I'm usually out here by myself, so it's like I'll have like, you know, rocks in my pocket, and I'll get a cow kind of like, I'll get the light the way I want it, and then, you know, like throwing pebbles to try to get it to turn its head. Um, like, like when I go out and photograph like big cats or whatever, again, you control the controllables, and there's like you know how to compose the shot, where the light needs to be, the frame, the composition, and then the animal's just got to do what the animal does. And then you you that's all you're focused on in that moment. Everything else you've taken care of. With the longhorns, it's very similar. I just didn't know what those things were for the first six months. It was like, what are these things I need to look out for? And it's I think I've figured it out, but um, and like I don't know if you look at my site, but every single animal is faced the same direction, except for one. Um but I will get that photo soon. But like, so all like to me, it's like um it's the aesthetic piece. It I want it to look good, have consistency. Like, if you look at um there's a few breeders who I won't name names here, but the photography is it's not like the best photos in the world, but there's such wonderful consistency to how the animals are posed, the development process they're using, so it all looks very similar. And I think that's when you create a brand, having consistency in how things look is important.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Do you have any tips for other Longhorn photographers or just longhorn owners out there who also have to be photographers? Um, you know, anything from cameras and lenses versus the iPhone, times a day, just everything.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

You know, I I mean, look, the golden hour, right, is when you want to take your photos, softer light. Um watch the horns, make sure the horn, what's behind the horns is can is solid, whether it's the sky or trees or grass, whatever it may be, that really helps you see the the shape of the horn. Um and then all the confirmation stuff. I mean, that's a little trickier if you're out there by yourself, but getting confirmation right is important. Um and again, that is trickier, but you know, I I don't want my animals to be judged because they were standing a little funny, but I know they have perfect confirmation.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

So I try to get that right as well.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

I know you haven't consigned to a lot of sales, um, but how much more value would you place on the patients and the number of tries to get a photo right? For a sale catalog than just for a website.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I mean, because y'all have created this amazing platform, you know, the initial bookmarking of an animal happens based on that first photograph. So, like when I scrub an online auction catalog that you guys post, it's that first photo, obviously the pedigree and the the data behind the animal, but it's that first photograph that is your first impression. So, and if you can't go to the sale, it may be your only impression.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Um so I think it's yeah, it's very important.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Do you have any advice for folks who just have no desire to carry out a camera every time they go and are just going to use the standard iPhone? Do you is there any setting secrets or anything you can share with us?

SPEAKER_01 46:09

You know, like when you're photographing a subject like a cow or a longhorn, whatever it may be, blurring the background is what makes the subject pop. So if I were shooting with an iPhone, I would shoot it in portrait mode just to blur the background, because that makes the animal kind of separate. Um and then, you know, I mean, for me, the editing piece, don't edit to a point where it's not a realistic representation of your animal, whether that be color or, you know, um the blacks or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

So I would just have a light touch with the edits and uh blur the background.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

So which is harder to photograph, a longhorn in your pasture or the wild animals on the plains of Mara?

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Longhorns, 100%. It's not even close. Which is which is which is scarier. Go ahead. I'm by myself out there, and some they'll just walk off. And you know, a lion on the hunt in the Mara, I know where he's he or she is going. I know what the goal is, so I can build around the narrative there. With a cow, they'll just turn and just walk off. Uh so yeah, it's it's really hard. Really hard.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

Now I know you said you you everything you keep has great disposition, but which is scarier to photograph? A great white shark off the coast of Guadalupe or a longhorn cow with a newborn baby calf?

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Longhorn cow with a new baby calf. There was a very substantial cage between me and those great whites that I had a lot of confidence in. Maybe, maybe wrong to do that, but I did. Um, but I've I've um, you know, I have some pretty big lenses for my cameras. So I don't have to get super close to the mamas and their babies.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

I can get pretty far away and still get a a shot that looks like I was right next to them.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Well, where do you want Blue Dog Farm to be in the next five years?

SPEAKER_01 48:20

You know, I I uh I just want to keep um building out that group of foundation females that um, you know, one thing Randy said on your your podcast the last time he was on was I think Randy said this is the value of a cow is what she produces. And I think sometimes when we buy cows, we buy the cow in front of us because it's beautiful and its horns are a certain shape or whatever it may be. But if that cow doesn't produce, it is a lawn ornament. Um and so I am like as I think about my herd, the foundation female females, I have I have them because of a track record of production. Um, Laura's, you know, that D-type heifer that she has. That uh you just interviewed the uh the owners of that heifer. And then um, you know, Wilma, who I bought recently, she has a a lot of progeny that are doing very well. And so I I do want beautiful cows in my pasture, but but the goal here is to have cows that produce.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

And here's one thing I'll say for new breeders, and I am a new breeder. Cows will often outproduce themselves.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

And so when you, if you're a smaller breeder and you make these culling decisions because of, you know, I don't have enough land or whatever, look at what they've produced. I've had a cow that I was going to get rid of two times, and after each of her babies, I was like, why would I ever get rid of this cow? It's not my favorite cow in the pasture, but her babies are unbelievable. So she made the cut. Um so I guess back to your question. My goal is to have a group of females that more often than not are producing really, really good offspring that people would be proud to own out of her desires that I own.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Do you think that in you know, in the future of the farm, you'll be taking animals to fraturities or to sales and competitions? Or are you more just interested in having beautiful animals at the ranch to look at and kind of being a part of the industry when you're able? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Yeah, just my schedule just kind of doesn't allow for the futurity piece of this, unfortunately. Maybe, maybe one day I I could do that, but but not currently. I mean, for me, you know, the all the animals I've sold have been private treaty. And I think Mr. Twining, when he was on here a while back, he said it's important to leave some meat on the bone for the next buyer. And I think that has served me well. Um, meaning I'm not trying to hit a home run with every animal I sell. It's I'll I'll make some money and and recoup, but so will the next person. Um and I think me as well, starting out, I fell in love with these animals and I was like, this is a $50,000 heifer. And because you just fall in love with your own program, your own animals, your own genetics, or whatever. And at best, that's a $6,000 heifer. But it takes a while to realize like what your animals are actually worth and how to price them. And um so you know, for me, I just want to continue to improve my herd with genetics that I control.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

And when I sell an animal, do it in a way that's fair so that the next breeder can also make some money on that animal.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Would you change anything about when you started? Or how you started, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

I would have changed the layout of my pastures and my working pens.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

That was uh that was frustrating. But uh no, that uh we got that figured out. I um it took me a while to get the nutrition piece dialed in. Uh, but thanks to Randy and Jeremy, I think I've got a handle on nutrition. Um you know, I've got a good vet who's close by that can be here pretty fast. So you know, for like thankfully, Longhorns mine have not had a lot of challenges with um new calves or any anything like that. But just if you don't live at your place, you gotta have plans in place when things go wrong and you're not there. So uh I probably would have figured some of that stuff out a little faster than I did and not just relied on Jeremy and his family to come save me when things went wrong.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Aaron Ross Powell Well, since you mentioned that you've listened to a few of our podcasts, one thing that we usually ask our guests is just to share the one of their funniest longhorn stories, if it's uh if it's PG-rated for for the listeners.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Aaron Ross Powell I've got a couple, but one is is relevant to the to the date and time that it is right now. So Jeremy, as I was, you know, starting this journey, he picked me up and he was like, let's go look at some some breeders in our area. And so we pull up, and I was probably a month into this, and I'd memorized a lot of stuff about pedigrees and you know, sires that had been influential in the industry and cows and everything. So we drive up to this property and I'm looking at this animal. I was like, that is the most incredible longhorn I've ever seen in my life. And he was like, Yeah, he's pretty special. And I was like, Yeah, he's awesome. We're driving off, and he just looked at me and he was like, Do you know who that was? I was like, I have absolutely no idea. He was like, that was cowboy tough checks. And I was like, ah, I felt so dumb. Uh, but here I was just looking at arguably the most influential sire in the history of our breed and had no idea. I knew him on paper backwards and forwards, but I just there I was sitting right in front of him. Um and then the other funny story is Jeremy's daughter, Chapel, is is my hand at the at the farm sometimes when she's in town.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

And we were um we had the vet and we were doing something, we were running them all through. And one of my mamas had a little bull calf, not a little bull calf, uh, a bigger bull calf.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

And we were trying to get her in the chute and let the little bull through the trapdoor and all that stuff. And Chapel was up on the top of the fence, and I was on the other side, and this little bull taco bolts out, and we we we didn't, we needed him back in the pen because we had to brand him or something. And she jumped off the top of those pens like Superman and landed on this bull calf and wrestled him to the ground. And and in that moment, I was like, I was like, you have just made me look so bad. And she stood up and just dragging this bull back, and I was like, nothing in me said jump off these bars and land on that bull. Um, but yeah, no, it was it was pretty hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

That's happened multiple times with Chapel because she's she's just a lot better at this than I am.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Well, is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like to share with the listeners today?

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Let me see.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

You know, I I um I've mentioned um a few times, but and this is when you get into this industry like me, and you're really clueless, uh, you do rely on a lot of other people because these are expensive animals. It's it's an expensive hobby business, whatever you want to call it. So there's a lot of trust um or in the early days until you figure out what you're doing. And very early on, Jeremy with 3J and Randy were available to me to answer questions, get on the phone, sit with me at a sale. Um, and I just feel fortunate to have attached to such, you know, knowledgeable, honest people uh to help me kind of navigate through this. And it's wild. And Dean Whitlock as well. I text Dean all the time, and he obviously is doing amazing things. Um, but like I listened to your podcast, I've maybe listened to all of them. And the amount of people that say their mentor in this industry is Randy Murray, I think it's like 80% of the people y'all interview list Randy. And I'm like, how does he have the time to be the resource for all of because if he texts these people as much as I text him and we text about cows, it's it's incredible. If he charged a dollar per text, um, I think he'd have 3,000 cows, not 1,600 cows. But uh, so I I think um, again, it it just makes it a lot easier and a lot more fun when you can share this passion of ours with these other like-minded people who have all this wisdom and really are genuinely wishing for your success and and uh helping you build a good program.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Well, I feel like that's a perfect ending. Maybe a special shout out to Randy to join us again and and share more of his knowledge uh more widely.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

He should. I just don't think he has the time. He's too busy texting people.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We'll link your website in the show notes um that has the horn predictor, um the next generation pages, all of the different things we've covered that uh folks can hopefully go check out.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

Awesome. Thank you so much, Molly.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Thank you.